Somebody outta be SPANKED - Page 7 - tanTALK

JohnnyComeLately · 06-24-2005, 08:39 PM

The anti-CalTan suit seemed wayyyyy too one sided. They can't say a sun tanning lotion helps get a tan?? Ummmm.....what about the little thingys in there that are called, "BRONZERS!" You could make an argument that tingles excite the microcirculation (which helps tanning), etc. If that's true, then why don't they force SPF lotions to say, "They CANT stop you from getting a tan" or "Stopping you from getting a tan has no effect upon your ability to get skin cancer?"

If it boils down to lobbyist Vs lobbyist, we've got a long ways to go. I'll support whatever we can get going, but I still think we'll need a smoking gun. Something as strong as the "kids injected with XYZ are 500% more likely to get autism" kinda evidence. If we can get concrete evidence, seniors may even take up the fight if you can show an increased resistance to breaking bones and boosted immune system. It's definately in their best interests. However, right now this fight doesn't appear based upon science. This is especially evident when the CalTan suit claims that no indoor UV has any scientific evidence of helping one's health. If that's true, why did I pay out the arse for my son to lay under UV lights in infant intensive care when he was born with Jaundice? They sure do have a alot of "useless, non science proven" equipment laying around Infant ICU. Following the court order's logic, I should sue since they've "directly contributed to his liklihood of getting skin cancer" (the opposite assertion of CalTan's order).

John

DWhite6872 · 06-24-2005, 09:21 PM

Okay, tanning salon owners...do you believe that we need to do something? Do you believe that there is different levels of challenges that we face? Do you think this different ways to respond?
I wish we could just wrap it up with a bow and say okay we are done...each issue has to be pulled out and a different method of reponse is needed...I have found it interesting that we cannot even get along on a thread ....and when someone brings up the obvious....we attack her and even throw her under a bus...

Can we agree that something needs to be done? Should we wait until they try and pass a law to outlaw teenage tanning , like they did in California? Do you think it will only happen in Cali? I know the ITA comes in when we are under attack...how about fighting before we get attacked? Do you really think this is a far out idea?

jedgarhoover · 06-24-2005, 11:28 PM

To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence.
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Sherin · 06-24-2005, 11:54 PM

Sun Tzu also said:
"A skilled warrior moves his opponet; he does not allow the opponet to move him. Against a skilled attacker, the enemy does not know which point to defend; against a skilled defender, the enemy does not know which point to attack. Formless and invisible, we are the arbeiter of the enemy's fate.
One is strong if he causes the enemy to respond to him; one is weak if one must respond to the enemy."

_________________
'Go mbeid gra is sonas i ndan duit'
'May love and happiness be your destiny'[ This Message was edited by: Sherin on 2005-06-25 12:40 ]

Sheila in Minnesota · 06-25-2005, 11:41 AM

I would like to point out (in a gentle and smiling way of course) to Neon that the words

May cause

May be linked to...

Are believed to be linked to

Are believed to be the cause of
etc...

Are what is riddling all Anti-Sun presentations at this time.

What happened when the industry started to kick up it's heals?

They used their Advertising Dollars spent by the Big Pharma.... to stop publication, supress any article or comment that PROVED them wrong..... I don't know how to simplify the Domino Theory as it relates to this issue....

But Peer Reviewed became the catch phrase ----- Dr. Hollick has been bashed and brutilzed by the UNION of Anti-Tan, Big Pharma Cosmetics and the University Grant Chasers..... A brilliant man, with multiple specialties - - - called a WHORE by anti-tan (who rapidly forgets who they have in THEIR beds)... Hollick is NOT a tool of Indoor Tanning any more than Dr Cannell could ever be accused of one.

The problems cause by the past 20 years of the SunScare Message effects humans far more deeply than just the Salon Industry....

When you look at someone debilitated by M.S.

When you see the LIFE of a man go to black because his Prostate Cancer has ENDED the life he would want to live.

When Osteoporosis bends the spine to suffocation - - - and it COULD have been avoided!!!

this crap can make me cry!!! and I don't cry easy.....

This time, with science and validation coming from the sources that do not even KNOW about the plight of the tanning industy - - - well, right now, the information they are publishing is not being surpressed.... they cannot FIRE any of these doctors and educators.... and while many intelligent people are concerned that OUR industry orgs are not responding---- I am more concerned that WE may be responding TOO LATE

Sheila in Minnesota · 06-25-2005, 04:43 PM

How does it keep happening??

Threads going missing because there is very little skill in moderating!!!

Engfant posted his opposition to the repeated censorship on this site ---- and he was censored - topic removed from view....

I wonder if everyone has this need for being the BIG AUTHORITATIVE Book Burner???? Naaaaah - it's just the select few---

Engfant posted about an exodus from this site ~ and I responded:(but you can't see it there)

I'm a BIG lover of humor.... I sh*it you not - I love to laugh.

But I find censorship is never a funny matter.

True - the rules are ambiguous.... what's good for the Goose is not always allowed to the Gander.

Being an even keeled Moderator is not an easy job - and quite frankly, there are few up to the challenge.

All this being said - - - we must all realize that we are GEOGRAPHICALLY DIVERSE.... What's part of my culture as 'normal' is grounds for being burned at the stake in others'.

With all the jibber jabber and emotion --- one thing is CLEAR.

This industry has ALWAYS gotten topics like this and whipped it up into a personal war of conflicts.... And nothing of value has been born of any effort.

I am no longer an owner of a salon - but I am a user of UV. When I left the business, I did not leave all my passion or my strength in a box marked 'used and abused'....

There are still some really valuable humans here. I hope that the Mod Team take the comments made to heart - and do the best they can to numb up the raw nerve endings ~

Up until this week --- I advised EVERYONE who asked me to not WAIT for a national effort... there was none forthcoming ~ ~ and to 'change the world and perception of tanning - one client at a time'....

And still the Fear Factor was ---- but I could lose my salon! Yes.... as the cards are dealt now - someone or group COULD try to cause you grief for telling the truth.... but Time and Evidence are on our side now.

I still believe that every salon owner is responsible to give their clients the FACTS... but I also believe that too many salons are 'sub standard' ----

What's the use of displaying the Smart Tan Certification if you and your staff STILL allow the client to bully you into unsafe exposures? There are more than a few salon owners that have LOST BUSINESS to the poopooshacks simply because they are doing the RIGHT thing.... how fair is that?

So while I love this industry - - - I am not blind to its faults. I would not stand up and defend the industry in court ~ Like I could defend my own business practices....

Improvement is not just needed on the side of Anti-Tan ---

We need to improve our industry just as much.

One Black Brush cannot be used to paint the entire medical profession including derms ---- for their are MANY that don't follow the 'Team Slogan' there is no such thing as a good tan....

Fact is ---- we need to improve ourselves to present an honest picture to those whose perceptions are tainted....

Can you imagine being part of a coalition that actually has requirements of membership BEYOND being able to spell your name correctly on the test?

That by being a member - you could reap the rewards of that association of your salon and this coalition?

That while we do not NEED to be in Lab Coats with Meters and Pocket Protectors - - we DO need to be EDUCATED AND PROFESSIONAL and removing the FTC and pals death sentence for indoor tanning is NOT ENOUGH to earn the respect and business of the general public?

We need to do more than Talk the Talk and Walk the Walk --- we need to RE-LEARN how to do both.

Sheila in Minnesota · 06-25-2005, 04:45 PM

I am sick of people's time and effort to participate getting poopoo on.

Neon Beach · 06-25-2005, 04:47 PM

Attacking the site and/or Mods is a no no that you seem to be the only one that gets away with.

Back to the topic as DW would say.

Sheila in Minnesota · 06-25-2005, 04:54 PM

'attacking' from you

'expressing opinions and deep felt concerns' from all those censored.

Btw ~ I find your comments offensive. Now while I feel it is your RIGHT to express them and to not have them censored - - it appears the SITE wishes me to REPORT the offense and not retaliate ----

So I did.

DWhite6872 · 06-25-2005, 04:58 PM

I do not think Sheila is attacking the mods...but is frustrated when things get trashed.
I know I modded the post earlier only when the site was getting "attacked"..
I know we really try and not let anyone personally attack one another..we try and make it so we are "attacking the issues" not one another.
I know a goal of all of ours is for salon owners feel they can post without being called names or embarrassed for their opinion. Unlike what just happened to Terri..

I know it can be frustrating...but it is not our intention to censor posts...

I still wish we could have a feature to "edit" certain attacks...and still leave the post up...there have been really good posts from salon owners that have one line of name calling...but the rest was a great post!

_________________
Any Advice given please consider the size of your market![ This Message was edited by: DWhite6872 on 2005-06-25 17:00 ]

06-24-2005, 08:39 PM	#61 (permalink)
JohnnyComeLately I'm Banned Join Date: Oct 2 2004 Location: San Diego Age: 54 Posts: 510 Rep Power: 0	The anti-CalTan suit seemed wayyyyy too one sided. They can't say a sun tanning lotion helps get a tan?? Ummmm.....what about the little thingys in there that are called, "BRONZERS!" You could make an argument that tingles excite the microcirculation (which helps tanning), etc. If that's true, then why don't they force SPF lotions to say, "They CANT stop you from getting a tan" or "Stopping you from getting a tan has no effect upon your ability to get skin cancer?" If it boils down to lobbyist Vs lobbyist, we've got a long ways to go. I'll support whatever we can get going, but I still think we'll need a smoking gun. Something as strong as the "kids injected with XYZ are 500% more likely to get autism" kinda evidence. If we can get concrete evidence, seniors may even take up the fight if you can show an increased resistance to breaking bones and boosted immune system. It's definately in their best interests. However, right now this fight doesn't appear based upon science. This is especially evident when the CalTan suit claims that no indoor UV has any scientific evidence of helping one's health. If that's true, why did I pay out the arse for my son to lay under UV lights in infant intensive care when he was born with Jaundice? They sure do have a alot of "useless, non science proven" equipment laying around Infant ICU. Following the court order's logic, I should sue since they've "directly contributed to his liklihood of getting skin cancer" (the opposite assertion of CalTan's order). John

06-24-2005, 09:21 PM	#62 (permalink)
DWhite6872 Waiting Confirmation Join Date: Apr 22 2004 Posts: 3,646 Rep Power: 0	Okay, tanning salon owners...do you believe that we need to do something? Do you believe that there is different levels of challenges that we face? Do you think this different ways to respond? I wish we could just wrap it up with a bow and say okay we are done...each issue has to be pulled out and a different method of reponse is needed...I have found it interesting that we cannot even get along on a thread ....and when someone brings up the obvious....we attack her and even throw her under a bus... Can we agree that something needs to be done? Should we wait until they try and pass a law to outlaw teenage tanning , like they did in California? Do you think it will only happen in Cali? I know the ITA comes in when we are under attack...how about fighting before we get attacked? Do you really think this is a far out idea?

06-24-2005, 11:28 PM	#63 (permalink)
jedgarhoover Join Date: May 19 2005 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu, The Art of War

06-24-2005, 11:54 PM	#64 (permalink)
Sherin I love Derf!! Join Date: Aug 10 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 2,870 Rep Power: 25	Sun Tzu also said: "A skilled warrior moves his opponet; he does not allow the opponet to move him. Against a skilled attacker, the enemy does not know which point to defend; against a skilled defender, the enemy does not know which point to attack. Formless and invisible, we are the arbeiter of the enemy's fate. One is strong if he causes the enemy to respond to him; one is weak if one must respond to the enemy." _________________ 'Go mbeid gra is sonas i ndan duit' 'May love and happiness be your destiny'[ This Message was edited by: Sherin on 2005-06-25 12:40 ]

06-25-2005, 11:41 AM	#65 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	I would like to point out (in a gentle and smiling way of course) to Neon that the words May cause May be linked to... Are believed to be linked to Are believed to be the cause of etc... Are what is riddling all Anti-Sun presentations at this time. What happened when the industry started to kick up it's heals? They used their Advertising Dollars spent by the Big Pharma.... to stop publication, supress any article or comment that PROVED them wrong..... I don't know how to simplify the Domino Theory as it relates to this issue.... But Peer Reviewed became the catch phrase ----- Dr. Hollick has been bashed and brutilzed by the UNION of Anti-Tan, Big Pharma Cosmetics and the University Grant Chasers..... A brilliant man, with multiple specialties - - - called a WHORE by anti-tan (who rapidly forgets who they have in THEIR beds)... Hollick is NOT a tool of Indoor Tanning any more than Dr Cannell could ever be accused of one. The problems cause by the past 20 years of the SunScare Message effects humans far more deeply than just the Salon Industry.... When you look at someone debilitated by M.S. When you see the LIFE of a man go to black because his Prostate Cancer has ENDED the life he would want to live. When Osteoporosis bends the spine to suffocation - - - and it COULD have been avoided!!! this crap can make me cry!!! and I don't cry easy..... This time, with science and validation coming from the sources that do not even KNOW about the plight of the tanning industy - - - well, right now, the information they are publishing is not being surpressed.... they cannot FIRE any of these doctors and educators.... and while many intelligent people are concerned that OUR industry orgs are not responding---- I am more concerned that WE may be responding TOO LATE

06-25-2005, 04:43 PM	#66 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	How does it keep happening?? Threads going missing because there is very little skill in moderating!!! Engfant posted his opposition to the repeated censorship on this site ---- and he was censored - topic removed from view.... I wonder if everyone has this need for being the BIG AUTHORITATIVE Book Burner???? Naaaaah - it's just the select few--- Engfant posted about an exodus from this site ~ and I responded:(but you can't see it there) I'm a BIG lover of humor.... I sh*it you not - I love to laugh. But I find censorship is never a funny matter. True - the rules are ambiguous.... what's good for the Goose is not always allowed to the Gander. Being an even keeled Moderator is not an easy job - and quite frankly, there are few up to the challenge. All this being said - - - we must all realize that we are GEOGRAPHICALLY DIVERSE.... What's part of my culture as 'normal' is grounds for being burned at the stake in others'. With all the jibber jabber and emotion --- one thing is CLEAR. This industry has ALWAYS gotten topics like this and whipped it up into a personal war of conflicts.... And nothing of value has been born of any effort. I am no longer an owner of a salon - but I am a user of UV. When I left the business, I did not leave all my passion or my strength in a box marked 'used and abused'.... There are still some really valuable humans here. I hope that the Mod Team take the comments made to heart - and do the best they can to numb up the raw nerve endings ~ Up until this week --- I advised EVERYONE who asked me to not WAIT for a national effort... there was none forthcoming ~ ~ and to 'change the world and perception of tanning - one client at a time'.... And still the Fear Factor was ---- but I could lose my salon! Yes.... as the cards are dealt now - someone or group COULD try to cause you grief for telling the truth.... but Time and Evidence are on our side now. I still believe that every salon owner is responsible to give their clients the FACTS... but I also believe that too many salons are 'sub standard' ---- What's the use of displaying the Smart Tan Certification if you and your staff STILL allow the client to bully you into unsafe exposures? There are more than a few salon owners that have LOST BUSINESS to the poopooshacks simply because they are doing the RIGHT thing.... how fair is that? So while I love this industry - - - I am not blind to its faults. I would not stand up and defend the industry in court ~ Like I could defend my own business practices.... Improvement is not just needed on the side of Anti-Tan --- We need to improve our industry just as much. One Black Brush cannot be used to paint the entire medical profession including derms ---- for their are MANY that don't follow the 'Team Slogan' there is no such thing as a good tan.... Fact is ---- we need to improve ourselves to present an honest picture to those whose perceptions are tainted.... Can you imagine being part of a coalition that actually has requirements of membership BEYOND being able to spell your name correctly on the test? That by being a member - you could reap the rewards of that association of your salon and this coalition? That while we do not NEED to be in Lab Coats with Meters and Pocket Protectors - - we DO need to be EDUCATED AND PROFESSIONAL and removing the FTC and pals death sentence for indoor tanning is NOT ENOUGH to earn the respect and business of the general public? We need to do more than Talk the Talk and Walk the Walk --- we need to RE-LEARN how to do both.

06-25-2005, 04:45 PM	#67 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	I am sick of people's time and effort to participate getting poopoo on.

06-25-2005, 04:47 PM	#68 (permalink)
Neon Beach Join Date: Nov 30 2000 Location: Ontario Age: 61 Posts: 38,594 Rep Power: 107	Attacking the site and/or Mods is a no no that you seem to be the only one that gets away with. Back to the topic as DW would say.

06-25-2005, 04:54 PM	#69 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	'attacking' from you 'expressing opinions and deep felt concerns' from all those censored. Btw ~ I find your comments offensive. Now while I feel it is your RIGHT to express them and to not have them censored - - it appears the SITE wishes me to REPORT the offense and not retaliate ---- So I did.

06-25-2005, 04:58 PM	#70 (permalink)
DWhite6872 Waiting Confirmation Join Date: Apr 22 2004 Posts: 3,646 Rep Power: 0	I do not think Sheila is attacking the mods...but is frustrated when things get trashed. I know I modded the post earlier only when the site was getting "attacked".. I know we really try and not let anyone personally attack one another..we try and make it so we are "attacking the issues" not one another. I know a goal of all of ours is for salon owners feel they can post without being called names or embarrassed for their opinion. Unlike what just happened to Terri.. I know it can be frustrating...but it is not our intention to censor posts... I still wish we could have a feature to "edit" certain attacks...and still leave the post up...there have been really good posts from salon owners that have one line of name calling...but the rest was a great post! _________________ Any Advice given please consider the size of your market![ This Message was edited by: DWhite6872 on 2005-06-25 17:00 ]

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