Because they don\'t want you to know! - tanTALK

Don Smith · 05-29-2002, 10:08 PM

FYI:

I had a phone message "question" left on the toll free TSO line (1-888-994-3828) that I thought might be of interest to some of you.

The question was this.

"Why aren't you willing to talk about sunlamp compatibility at the LV and Nashville meetings?"

The caller went on to say how interested he/she was about this confusing subject and expressed his/her disappointment that I was not willing to share my knowledge about this subject with my peers.

Here's what I told him/her when I returned the call.

1. I wasn't asked to speak at either LV or Nashville about sunlamp compatibility.

2. If I had been, I would have accepted.

3. I didn't expect to be invited to speak because I understand why the vendors who control the trade shows don't want you to know the truth about the sunlamp compatibility "scandal" and so they aren't going to let ANYONE (especially me!) talk about it.

So, don't hold your breath waiting for either of the trade shows to schedule a session about sunlamp compatibility.

Why? Because. IMHO, the vendors who control things don't want you to know the truth about the sunlamp compatibility scandal!

Don "Them's The Facts, Folks" Smith

solarmeter · 05-29-2002, 11:03 PM

Why a simple standard MED/hr or MED/min intercomparison among lamps has to be considered a 'scandal' is beyond me.

We see comparisons of tires, DVD players, computer hard drives, etc all the time, referenced to uniform test criteria.

Good grief...

Sheila in Minnesota · 05-30-2002, 02:40 AM

Don: I am planning a tupperware party in support of the National Ad Campaign and would love to invite you to be our guest speaker ~ where you can regal my guest with the results of your lamp tests . . . .

There are some really exciting new product lines for tupperware this season and I am sure that your workbench at the UVR Lab can use some of the nifty 4x2 superseal containers. . . . .

Let me know if you can make it.

Sheila

The Hostess with the Mostess

Soakinuptherays · 05-30-2002, 08:06 AM

Does any one question the need to have a new trade show were manufacturers can not control the speakers and training sessions to insure salon onwers are kept in the dark!

Don Smith · 05-30-2002, 09:11 AM

Steve:

I belong to the "call a pig a pig" school of communications, Steve. Therefore, I call the absurd situation the indoor tanning industry finds itself in regarding sunlamp compatibility a "scandal" because it IS a scandal (and one that WILL ultimately affect EVERYONE in the indoor tanning industry!).

The presentation at the TEPRSSC meeting by Dr. Robert Levin (of Osram/Sylvania) regarding the "violations" of the EXISTING sunlamp compatibility regulations had, as you know, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the subjects being discussed (warning labels, Amendment 3 and Eyewear); rather, it was (IMHO) a FINAL "shot across the bow" of FDA and the companies playing "fast and loose" with the existing regulations.

Everyone will be saying "good grief!" when this all hits the front pages of the newspapers and when the anti-tanning crowd "take advantage" of this situation. Scandal will be one of the mildest words we will see! This will cause a "black eye" for the industry that will last a long, long time.

IF you were paying attention, Steve (and I think you were), Dr. Levin said (very clearly!) that the violations of the sunlamp compatibility regulations could be considered to be a "de facto" INVOLUNTARY "overexposure of the American public" and that, my friend, is a "scandal" by anyone's definition!

What's next? Since it appears that FDA is either unwilling or unable to take action, look for a legal action to be set in motion VERY soon. And then the genie will be out of the bottle and we won't be able to put him/her back in again.

What can stop this madness? By the sunlamp companies simply agreeing NOT to make compatibility "claims" that can't be substantiatied ASAP!

One final thing. Dr. Levin stated something VERY IMPORTANT at TEPRSSC (that I said in Rockville on 2/7/02). EVERY single offending sunlamp that violates the existing sunlamp compatibility regulations does so with a SHORTER te (time to 4.0 MED) time! NOT ONCE have we (or anyone else) tested a sunlamp with a longer te time than the "original" sunlamp! What does THAT tell you?

"How awful to reflect that what people say of us is true." [Logan Pearsall Smith: Afterthoughts]

Don "Who Knows What He Is Talking About" Smith

Don Smith · 05-30-2002, 09:32 AM

Sheila:

Plan your "Tupperware Party" for late September or early October and I guarantee you that you will draw a record crowd to hear me speak about sunlamp compatibility. Forget about Nashville (who won't touch this issue with a 20 foot pole!), YOUR show will be THE one to attend!

That is about when the "sh*t will hit the fan" regarding the sunlamp compatibility scandal. Unfortunately, all of us in the industry will be hit with you know what!

Don "Your Guest Speaker" Smith

PS: Could we also have some models there demonstating the latest bikini's? I promose not to drool (more than I normally do).

solarmeter · 05-30-2002, 10:34 AM

Don,

Is there a single standard form that 'compatibility data' gets submitted to FDA on? Or are the forms as many and varied as are the test procedures and test labs?

Are the 'too strong' to be compatible lamps all 'tested' side by side with the reference lamp at the same lab? Are such 'bogus' results all coming from the same 'independent' test lab? Does that lab use OL spectroradiometer, determine Eeff in W/m^2 and calculate Te?

Should not the company(s) listing lamps as compatible which in reality are over 10% stronger thus become 'the manufacturer' and provide re-certification with new shorter Te exposure schedule labels?

Steve

Sheila in Minnesota · 05-30-2002, 01:32 PM

Don ~ Thank you for accepting the engagement . . .

As many people will WANT to meet Greg and Steve at my Tupperware Event ~ I would like to set some time aside for them to titillate the group with Private Label Advice and "hands On" instruction on how to hold the solar meter . . ..

Also, I have been advised of some really good kickbacks I can cash in on if I make the attendees stay overnight in Minnesota . . .

So, the 2nd day will be the Tasteful Treasures Event . . .. Toys and lingerie for the discriminating pervs . . .

I am still looking for my Guest Speaker but figure it should be either Rod(mike) or UnderCoverAngel . . . maybe both

The Tupperware pie carrier makes an excellent "drool" Catcher - - - - I have a feeling we will be selling out of these!

****now - - can either of my weird science boys splain to the blonde this riddle:

A lamp is made . . .

It has never been "Original Equipment" for any MFG - -

So it is called . . . unrated and therefore cannot be "out of compliance"??

Sheila

Don Smith · 05-30-2002, 05:03 PM

Sheila:

The answer to your "riddle" is that the sunlamp is only compatible with itself.

1. Just got the program for Nashville and there was NO MENTION of a "sunlamp compatibility" session.

2. Just reviewed the program for LV and there was NO MENTION of a "sunlamp compatibility" session.

Why do you suppose caused that AMAZING "coincidence" Sheila?

Don "Who DOES NOT believe in coincidences" Smith

05-29-2002, 10:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	FYI: I had a phone message "question" left on the toll free TSO line (1-888-994-3828) that I thought might be of interest to some of you. The question was this. "Why aren't you willing to talk about sunlamp compatibility at the LV and Nashville meetings?" The caller went on to say how interested he/she was about this confusing subject and expressed his/her disappointment that I was not willing to share my knowledge about this subject with my peers. Here's what I told him/her when I returned the call. 1. I wasn't asked to speak at either LV or Nashville about sunlamp compatibility. 2. If I had been, I would have accepted. 3. I didn't expect to be invited to speak because I understand why the vendors who control the trade shows don't want you to know the truth about the sunlamp compatibility "scandal" and so they aren't going to let ANYONE (especially me!) talk about it. So, don't hold your breath waiting for either of the trade shows to schedule a session about sunlamp compatibility. Why? Because. IMHO, the vendors who control things don't want you to know the truth about the sunlamp compatibility scandal! Don "Them's The Facts, Folks" Smith

05-29-2002, 11:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Why a simple standard MED/hr or MED/min intercomparison among lamps has to be considered a 'scandal' is beyond me. We see comparisons of tires, DVD players, computer hard drives, etc all the time, referenced to uniform test criteria. Good grief...

05-30-2002, 02:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	Don: I am planning a tupperware party in support of the National Ad Campaign and would love to invite you to be our guest speaker ~ where you can regal my guest with the results of your lamp tests . . . . There are some really exciting new product lines for tupperware this season and I am sure that your workbench at the UVR Lab can use some of the nifty 4x2 superseal containers. . . . . Let me know if you can make it. Sheila The Hostess with the Mostess

05-30-2002, 08:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
Soakinuptherays I love Derf!! Join Date: Oct 19 2000 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,160 Rep Power: 24	Does any one question the need to have a new trade show were manufacturers can not control the speakers and training sessions to insure salon onwers are kept in the dark!

05-30-2002, 09:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Steve: I belong to the "call a pig a pig" school of communications, Steve. Therefore, I call the absurd situation the indoor tanning industry finds itself in regarding sunlamp compatibility a "scandal" because it IS a scandal (and one that WILL ultimately affect EVERYONE in the indoor tanning industry!). The presentation at the TEPRSSC meeting by Dr. Robert Levin (of Osram/Sylvania) regarding the "violations" of the EXISTING sunlamp compatibility regulations had, as you know, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the subjects being discussed (warning labels, Amendment 3 and Eyewear); rather, it was (IMHO) a FINAL "shot across the bow" of FDA and the companies playing "fast and loose" with the existing regulations. Everyone will be saying "good grief!" when this all hits the front pages of the newspapers and when the anti-tanning crowd "take advantage" of this situation. Scandal will be one of the mildest words we will see! This will cause a "black eye" for the industry that will last a long, long time. IF you were paying attention, Steve (and I think you were), Dr. Levin said (very clearly!) that the violations of the sunlamp compatibility regulations could be considered to be a "de facto" INVOLUNTARY "overexposure of the American public" and that, my friend, is a "scandal" by anyone's definition! What's next? Since it appears that FDA is either unwilling or unable to take action, look for a legal action to be set in motion VERY soon. And then the genie will be out of the bottle and we won't be able to put him/her back in again. What can stop this madness? By the sunlamp companies simply agreeing NOT to make compatibility "claims" that can't be substantiatied ASAP! One final thing. Dr. Levin stated something VERY IMPORTANT at TEPRSSC (that I said in Rockville on 2/7/02). EVERY single offending sunlamp that violates the existing sunlamp compatibility regulations does so with a SHORTER te (time to 4.0 MED) time! NOT ONCE have we (or anyone else) tested a sunlamp with a longer te time than the "original" sunlamp! What does THAT tell you? "How awful to reflect that what people say of us is true." [Logan Pearsall Smith: Afterthoughts] Don "Who Knows What He Is Talking About" Smith

05-30-2002, 09:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Sheila: Plan your "Tupperware Party" for late September or early October and I guarantee you that you will draw a record crowd to hear me speak about sunlamp compatibility. Forget about Nashville (who won't touch this issue with a 20 foot pole!), YOUR show will be THE one to attend! That is about when the "sh*t will hit the fan" regarding the sunlamp compatibility scandal. Unfortunately, all of us in the industry will be hit with you know what! Don "Your Guest Speaker" Smith PS: Could we also have some models there demonstating the latest bikini's? I promose not to drool (more than I normally do).

05-30-2002, 10:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Don, Is there a single standard form that 'compatibility data' gets submitted to FDA on? Or are the forms as many and varied as are the test procedures and test labs? Are the 'too strong' to be compatible lamps all 'tested' side by side with the reference lamp at the same lab? Are such 'bogus' results all coming from the same 'independent' test lab? Does that lab use OL spectroradiometer, determine Eeff in W/m^2 and calculate Te? Should not the company(s) listing lamps as compatible which in reality are over 10% stronger thus become 'the manufacturer' and provide re-certification with new shorter Te exposure schedule labels? Steve

05-30-2002, 01:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	Don ~ Thank you for accepting the engagement . . . As many people will WANT to meet Greg and Steve at my Tupperware Event ~ I would like to set some time aside for them to titillate the group with Private Label Advice and "hands On" instruction on how to hold the solar meter . . .. Also, I have been advised of some really good kickbacks I can cash in on if I make the attendees stay overnight in Minnesota . . . So, the 2nd day will be the Tasteful Treasures Event . . .. Toys and lingerie for the discriminating pervs . . . I am still looking for my Guest Speaker but figure it should be either Rod(mike) or UnderCoverAngel . . . maybe both The Tupperware pie carrier makes an excellent "drool" Catcher - - - - I have a feeling we will be selling out of these! ****now - - can either of my weird science boys splain to the blonde this riddle: A lamp is made . . . It has never been "Original Equipment" for any MFG - - So it is called . . . unrated and therefore cannot be "out of compliance"?? Sheila

05-30-2002, 05:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Sheila: The answer to your "riddle" is that the sunlamp is only compatible with itself. 1. Just got the program for Nashville and there was NO MENTION of a "sunlamp compatibility" session. 2. Just reviewed the program for LV and there was NO MENTION of a "sunlamp compatibility" session. Why do you suppose caused that AMAZING "coincidence" Sheila? Don "Who DOES NOT believe in coincidences" Smith

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