UVB Percentages - Outdoors - tanTALK

Tina Oz · 05-17-2002, 09:07 PM

Hi Don,

I was told that you are the man who can answer my question.

What are the UVB percentages outdoors at noon for:

blue sky / cloudy

winter /summer

USA / Europe / Australia?

Robbie · 05-18-2002, 12:08 AM

Hi Tina,

You found him. Watch this guy work, you'll love it! Just don't ask him about business.

Don Smith · 05-18-2002, 08:27 AM

Tina Oz:

Ignore my friend Robbie's comments. That is just him trying to give me the "business" as usual. BTW, when he came to the states it (1) raised the I.Q. in Australia, and, (2) lowered it here. LOL

You asked for some information regarding UVB percentages. I suggest that you go to http://www.islandsuntimes.com and take a look (in the "back issues" section - found at the bottom of the page) at a two-part article that my bride and I wrote titled "Sunlight vs. Sunlamp" that was published in the February, 2002 and March, 2002 (or April) issues.

As I am sure you are aware, reading sunlight requires that you state the time and conditions under which you measure a component like UVB. Why? Because the UVB in sunlight changes from hour to hour, day to day, and season to season. Tanning beds, on the other hand. have the same "output" no matter the time of day, day of the week or season. That is why I refer to outdoor tanning as "uncontrolled and uncontrollable" and indoor tanning as "controlled".

Hopefully, the "link" shown below will take you right to this chart (from the IST article) but the results are also shown below. This UVB data was compiled on July 9, 2001 in Tucson, Arizona at the times listed.

7:30 am = 3.4% UVB
8:30 am =4.8% UVB
9:30 am = 6.1% UVB
10:30 am = 6.9% UVB
11:30 am = 7.6% UVB
12:30 pm 8.0% UVB
1:30 pm = 7.7% UVB
2:30 pm = 7.0% UVB
3:30 pm = 6.3% UVB
4:30 pm = 5.0% UVB
5:30 pm = 3.6% UVB

FYI, the "highest" UVB I have read here in Tucson, was 10.6% in August, 1999.

http://208.159.211.109/back_issue/other_pics.php?dis_images=feb2002SPI472A .jpg::feb2002SPI472B.jpg::feb2002SPI472C .jpg::feb2002SPI472D.jpg

I will try to find some additional information regarding published UVB readings elsewhere and post them here.

I hope this helps.

Don

PS: The Tucson readings will probably be very comparable to what you would get in your summer "down under".

A question for you: What would it cost for us to send Robbie back to Australia? Could you get him a job cleaning beds? LOL[ This Message was edited by: Don Smith on 2002-05-18 08:31 ]

Robbie · 05-18-2002, 09:07 AM

Don,

Only you could think in terms of “collective” IQ’s.

Tina had posed this question to me(UVB) and I told her that a weather-man who tans with me said it can get up to 40%. Mostly, he said it ranges between 12%-20%. I take it that this is way off and should be revised in my literature?

Robbie

P.S. As for cleaning beds, that’s for the proletariats.

solarmeter · 05-18-2002, 10:50 AM

Robbie,

That is WAY way off. What are you: 'ask me about business but NEVER mW/cm^2 (or mW/cm^4 as Rod/Mike used to call them).

Do you run all your salons without UV meters? If not, just point a model 5 & 6 at the clear sky noon sun, and divide 6 by 5 readings to get % UVB.

Clear readings above for that latitude and date are normal (and high UVB). You (and Tina) would be supprised at some cloudy readings as well.. especially thin wispy ones (clouds that is).

Steve

Robbie · 05-18-2002, 11:55 AM

Steve,

We don't use meters, although I think them a very useful tool. We just have too many beds, and accordingly change lamps based on hours, not output.

I know it's not as effective as using a meter, but in my context, it is more efficient.

Robbie

solarmeter · 05-18-2002, 01:49 PM

Robbie,

Community (marxist?) service idea:

Hire a college summer intern as a meter maid. She (or he) could work 3 months tracking new to aged lamps, making rounds to all your machines.

As a side study take outdoor %UVB reads to help 'scare' customers out of the nasty sun and into your controlled beds.

Report due to you at the end of term. Just make sure he/she doesn't stick it in the school newspaper, or a liberal professor will say 'hmmmm' while twisting his beard between two fingers.

Investment: $500 for 3 meter models (spam), and ~$5K for intern.

Benefit: 1)Discover half of scheduled lamp changes are premature (not down 30% yet), and 2) discover the other half are toast before their 'time', shorting customers their due milliwatts.

Food for thought...

Steve

Robbie · 05-18-2002, 02:09 PM

Steve,

Great suggestion, but wouldn’t I have to do this consistently?

Quick question: When you meter a bed, and output is low, is this true of all the lamps? Could some still be usable? Is the meter a “collective” measure? Should lamps be metered individually?

Also I noticed you said the data could be used to keep people out of the “nasty sun”. This is a poor choice of adjectives for the sun. I market against “nasty” usage. Not the sun itself.

Cheers,
Robbie
[ This Message was edited by: Robbie on 2002-05-18 23:04 ]

solarmeter · 05-18-2002, 05:25 PM

Robbie,

Yes it would have to be done consistently. The summer trial would just be to decide if the 'bother' was worth the benefits long term.

About the only use in measuring individual lamps is to pick off any 'duds' that light up but are way low on UV. When the overall output declines 30% (reading at body position), it's best to change them all at once, even if a few individuals are only down ~25%. You'd never be able to keep track of that (going back for them later), and the weak ones might cause stripes.

True - the sun is only nasty when used wrong. In fact, as more beneficial aspects of sunlight are acknowledged and published, we need to extend that toward sunlamps. Another reason why protocol in measuring either should be based on the same definition of a MED.

Tina Oz · 05-18-2002, 08:26 PM

Don,

Thank you for your prompt reply. Due to the time difference between USA and Australia it takes me a bit longer to reply.

Yes, it was actually Robbie who suggested that I pose this question to you. He also told me where I could find you, but it had to wait till the weekend, as I was too busy during the week. Thanks, Robbie!

Only 2 months ago, we had our new Australian Standards (AS) released. The old AS stipulated measurement in UVB percentages, but the new one ... this will make you happy, Solarmeter ... has changed to W/m^2.

However, although the UVB % issue has become somewhat obsolete due to this new AS, we have always been wondering about how indoors can be compared to outdoors UVB % wise.

As you can see in my post, I'm quite aware of the outdoor variables, such as time, conditions, as well as location.

At what nm spectrum were the Tuscan stats based? (As far as I know USA has a different spectrum to Australia)

Can the UVB % really be compared between indoors and outdoors? (Don't we have a much higher amount of UVA indoors than outdoors?)

Thank you, Don, for taking the time to answer my questions.

Tina

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05-17-2002, 09:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tina Oz Join Date: Mar 10 2002 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Hi Don, I was told that you are the man who can answer my question. What are the UVB percentages outdoors at noon for: blue sky / cloudy winter /summer USA / Europe / Australia?

05-18-2002, 12:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Robbie Join Date: Sep 1 2001 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 0	Hi Tina, You found him. Watch this guy work, you'll love it! Just don't ask him about business.

05-18-2002, 08:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Tina Oz: Ignore my friend Robbie's comments. That is just him trying to give me the "business" as usual. BTW, when he came to the states it (1) raised the I.Q. in Australia, and, (2) lowered it here. LOL You asked for some information regarding UVB percentages. I suggest that you go to http://www.islandsuntimes.com and take a look (in the "back issues" section - found at the bottom of the page) at a two-part article that my bride and I wrote titled "Sunlight vs. Sunlamp" that was published in the February, 2002 and March, 2002 (or April) issues. As I am sure you are aware, reading sunlight requires that you state the time and conditions under which you measure a component like UVB. Why? Because the UVB in sunlight changes from hour to hour, day to day, and season to season. Tanning beds, on the other hand. have the same "output" no matter the time of day, day of the week or season. That is why I refer to outdoor tanning as "uncontrolled and uncontrollable" and indoor tanning as "controlled". Hopefully, the "link" shown below will take you right to this chart (from the IST article) but the results are also shown below. This UVB data was compiled on July 9, 2001 in Tucson, Arizona at the times listed. 7:30 am = 3.4% UVB 8:30 am =4.8% UVB 9:30 am = 6.1% UVB 10:30 am = 6.9% UVB 11:30 am = 7.6% UVB 12:30 pm 8.0% UVB 1:30 pm = 7.7% UVB 2:30 pm = 7.0% UVB 3:30 pm = 6.3% UVB 4:30 pm = 5.0% UVB 5:30 pm = 3.6% UVB FYI, the "highest" UVB I have read here in Tucson, was 10.6% in August, 1999. http://208.159.211.109/back_issue/other_pics.php?dis_images=feb2002SPI472A .jpg::feb2002SPI472B.jpg::feb2002SPI472C .jpg::feb2002SPI472D.jpg I will try to find some additional information regarding published UVB readings elsewhere and post them here. I hope this helps. Don PS: The Tucson readings will probably be very comparable to what you would get in your summer "down under". A question for you: What would it cost for us to send Robbie back to Australia? Could you get him a job cleaning beds? LOL[ This Message was edited by: Don Smith on 2002-05-18 08:31 ]

05-18-2002, 09:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Robbie Join Date: Sep 1 2001 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 0	Don, Only you could think in terms of “collective” IQ’s. Tina had posed this question to me(UVB) and I told her that a weather-man who tans with me said it can get up to 40%. Mostly, he said it ranges between 12%-20%. I take it that this is way off and should be revised in my literature? Robbie P.S. As for cleaning beds, that’s for the proletariats.

05-18-2002, 10:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Robbie, That is WAY way off. What are you: 'ask me about business but NEVER mW/cm^2 (or mW/cm^4 as Rod/Mike used to call them). Do you run all your salons without UV meters? If not, just point a model 5 & 6 at the clear sky noon sun, and divide 6 by 5 readings to get % UVB. Clear readings above for that latitude and date are normal (and high UVB). You (and Tina) would be supprised at some cloudy readings as well.. especially thin wispy ones (clouds that is). Steve

05-18-2002, 11:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
Robbie Join Date: Sep 1 2001 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 0	Steve, We don't use meters, although I think them a very useful tool. We just have too many beds, and accordingly change lamps based on hours, not output. I know it's not as effective as using a meter, but in my context, it is more efficient. Robbie

05-18-2002, 01:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Robbie, Community (marxist?) service idea: Hire a college summer intern as a meter maid. She (or he) could work 3 months tracking new to aged lamps, making rounds to all your machines. As a side study take outdoor %UVB reads to help 'scare' customers out of the nasty sun and into your controlled beds. Report due to you at the end of term. Just make sure he/she doesn't stick it in the school newspaper, or a liberal professor will say 'hmmmm' while twisting his beard between two fingers. Investment: $500 for 3 meter models (spam), and ~$5K for intern. Benefit: 1)Discover half of scheduled lamp changes are premature (not down 30% yet), and 2) discover the other half are toast before their 'time', shorting customers their due milliwatts. Food for thought... Steve

05-18-2002, 02:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
Robbie Join Date: Sep 1 2001 Posts: 63 Rep Power: 0	Steve, Great suggestion, but wouldn’t I have to do this consistently? Quick question: When you meter a bed, and output is low, is this true of all the lamps? Could some still be usable? Is the meter a “collective” measure? Should lamps be metered individually? Also I noticed you said the data could be used to keep people out of the “nasty sun”. This is a poor choice of adjectives for the sun. I market against “nasty” usage. Not the sun itself. Cheers, Robbie [ This Message was edited by: Robbie on 2002-05-18 23:04 ]

05-18-2002, 05:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Robbie, Yes it would have to be done consistently. The summer trial would just be to decide if the 'bother' was worth the benefits long term. About the only use in measuring individual lamps is to pick off any 'duds' that light up but are way low on UV. When the overall output declines 30% (reading at body position), it's best to change them all at once, even if a few individuals are only down ~25%. You'd never be able to keep track of that (going back for them later), and the weak ones might cause stripes. True - the sun is only nasty when used wrong. In fact, as more beneficial aspects of sunlight are acknowledged and published, we need to extend that toward sunlamps. Another reason why protocol in measuring either should be based on the same definition of a MED.

05-18-2002, 08:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tina Oz Join Date: Mar 10 2002 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	Don, Thank you for your prompt reply. Due to the time difference between USA and Australia it takes me a bit longer to reply. Yes, it was actually Robbie who suggested that I pose this question to you. He also told me where I could find you, but it had to wait till the weekend, as I was too busy during the week. Thanks, Robbie! Only 2 months ago, we had our new Australian Standards (AS) released. The old AS stipulated measurement in UVB percentages, but the new one ... this will make you happy, Solarmeter ... has changed to W/m^2. However, although the UVB % issue has become somewhat obsolete due to this new AS, we have always been wondering about how indoors can be compared to outdoors UVB % wise. As you can see in my post, I'm quite aware of the outdoor variables, such as time, conditions, as well as location. At what nm spectrum were the Tuscan stats based? (As far as I know USA has a different spectrum to Australia) Can the UVB % really be compared between indoors and outdoors? (Don't we have a much higher amount of UVA indoors than outdoors?) Thank you, Don, for taking the time to answer my questions. Tina

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