Message To Max: Quit Bashing Greg And Tell Us Why Your Products Are Best! - tanTALK

Don Smith · 05-10-2002, 09:13 AM

Max:

As you know, I have been one of your biggest "supporters" since you entered the indoor tanning industry.

However, your "Bash Greg" act is getting old!

Why don't you stop this counterproductive "nonsense" and concentrate on telling us why your products are better than ANY of your competitors (including Greg) and trust that tanning salon owners are smart enough (I know that is a "leap of faith"!) to understand what you are saying.

My guess is that the "underlying problem" that has precipatated your "vendetta" against Greg is the "realization" that 50-60% of a tanning salon's "potential" is lost to the "brand" manufacturers (including Cal Tan) when they switch to PL.

What YOU must understand is that it has been the "business practices" of the "branded" lotion companies over the past 5 years that has caused forward thinking tanning salon owners (including us) to develop their own PL line as a "protection" against diversion.

You've "earned" a lot of "brownie points" from tanning salon owners because you have "tried" to stop diversion and none of us expect you to solve this complex problem completely. The fact that you have tried was enough for us to bring back your line to our salons!

Tell us about your products and quit bashing Greg! Educate us, don't insult our intelligence.

Don

PS: And bring back Fusion! LOL

PS To Greg: It would be nice if you followed the same advice I gave Max!

Soakinuptherays · 05-10-2002, 09:58 AM

Don,

I have been critical of Max and Caifornia Tan for saying one thing then doing another.

Max has responded by personally attacking me and my company without any facts to supports his claims.

I have made my posting all about business. I am trying to engage in civil conversations about the industry but all he and Fred88 can do is post vicious personal attacks on me.

The lastest example is our discussion on Private Labeling on TanToday. I ask people to read the civil exchange of ideas untill Fred88 decides to unleash unfair personal assult of me, my company and my customers.

I have never bashed Max personally, except in very heated moments, in responce to his outragous unprofessional personal attacks on me.

I have questions his business practices and policies and how he follow up with actions to support his words.

My best example of Max/Cal Tan saying one thing when reality is another is the Suntanning.Com banner where Cal Tan was " Only sold to salons".

When confronted with the fact that Cal Tan sells to resorts as well. His responce was they only sell resorts SPF products.

I was able to discover that too was a lie, MGM sold Hot Chocolate. Cal Tan sells those resorts directly so Max would have know what products they were selling resorts before he made that comment.

That was over 2 weeks ago, the banner still runs on Suntanning.com declaring that Cal Tan only sells to salons.

Why is Max leaving up a banner ad has has been clearly shown to be a lie?

Why would he lie in a post to justify it?

It continues to run because Max has not told Lonn to take it down and Lonn is to scared to take it down without Max's permission.

I do not feel it is bashing to point our the truth about a company that is lying to salons just to get their business.

I think it is helping salons make informed choices.

Have I been highly critical of Max and Cal Tan? Yes!

If you are going to say you support salon 100% yet you do less than that you deserve to be exposed.

Have I been critical of other industry giants?

Yes! Ask ETS, Four Season, John Abate, Team Tan and the list goes on!

Why do I do this?

Everyone else in our industry seems to want to be policially correct and never tell the truth about what is really happening in the industry.

My income is not tired to other industry manufactuers or distributors. No one can excert peressure on me to not was the truth.

Salon owners deserve to know!

I believe I have been critical without bashing. Bashing was not my intent, promoting change is my intent!

Soakinuptherays · 05-11-2002, 03:52 PM

Don,

Max and his alter ego Fred88 have decide to continue to bash me on post were I do not even talk about lotions.

I am soory to see them continuing to take the effort to personally attack me without reason.

Max Recone · 05-11-2002, 04:22 PM

Don:

As you know you are one of the people i respect most in the tanning industry in addition to the fact that i value your buiness and yourand Pat's friendship.

To tell you the truth, i did not even know who Greg was or what his firm did prior to about six months ago. Bruce from TanToday.com and Bob English from Suntanning.com asked me to take an interest in this, their words "bright and upcoming young man"....

I decided to take their advice and have tried to get to know him.....

As you may or may not know, i ran the Private Label Division of Playtex for many years and was involved in the manufacturing of Private Label Tampons, Rubber Gloves, Baby Items and Toothbrushes. Thru the years we had sold more than $100,000,000 in Private Label goods. I fell qualified to discuss the possible roles of Private Label as well as anyone in this industry.

California Tan is committed to and will research any and all possible ways to serve you the salon owner and your clients.

Now back to Greg.....at Bob English's request, i invited Greg to a dinner with the Gallagher family, the owners of the Suntan Supply Company, in Cleveland, Ohio....they are a terriffic distributor with a business totally dedicated to and specializing in serving the Ohio based tanning salon owners.

Well to make a long story short, Greg perhaps got a little to let's say "tipsy" or whatever but proceeded to become loud and beligerant in front of about 50 of the Gallagher family members (their parents, guests and even their children)

It was at this moment that i had asked Greg to stop, he would not, he then began a public trashing of California Tan.....Bob and Stephanie English apologized for this behaviour and for bringing him and escorted Greg out of the dinner party. They then drove two hours back to Pittsburgh....called several times to again apologize.

I think it was at that moment, Greg must have snapped......if you look back.....from that night on.....he has been obsessed with the California Tan company......Bruce has spoken with him, Bob and Steph have spoken with him.....Lonn has i beleive spoken with him.......he has not and cannot stop the constant bashing of California Tan....

He has a number of clients: Rod, Steve Miller and others, who in support have become what i would call the "Greg Tanning Hoodlums"

To date: they have made profitability claims that are not true, product quality claims they cannot support and have questioned the ethics of a company they know nothing about....

Alot of it, does not have any influence or real meaning....i asked Bruce to ask his posters to at least have some/any sense of truth in superiority posts....he then posted a "stop whining" post theme to all manufacturers......

I ask that you review each of my responses to Greg and the "PVL Posse" and give me feedback as to any time you have felt that we have been less than "top shelf" in our handling of their many attacks.

Regarding other posters and possible defenders, as you know i have no influence over them, nor do i want any.....but i think Greg is going to find it tough to post propoganda, spams that bash or any other mis-information any longer....

I think Bruce did the right thing this week in firing Larry, Rod did the right thing in resigning (i presume in support of Larry) and it is unclear as to why Marty and Carol did leave (they have kept this quiet and i respect that). They have since recruited two excellent new moderators, each who i think will make TanToday.com a better place to be.

Regarding Greg, i think your post, leads me to believe you think he is a good guy too! Mentor him then and help turn this angry man into the young businessman that you, Bruce used to, Bob and Stepahnie used to, Linda Bober used to and many others used to think he had the potential to be.

Looking forward to your feedback

Max

p.s. if you would like to discuss in private i can be reached today at 917 971-0495

Don Smith · 05-11-2002, 05:06 PM

Max & Greg:

I, like a lot of people, am tired of listening to stories about your labor pains.

WE WANT TO SEE THE BABY!

And the baby, gentlemen, is information about (1) why your products are better than the competition, and, (2) how we can sell more of them and make more money!

The two of you should resolve your silly "******* contest" by (1) phone; (2) fax; (3) e-mail; (4) letter; (5) having a "beer" and talking it out like adults; or (best of all) (6) having a "tough man fight" at LV with the proceeds going to support our work at the UVR Research Institute.

Why don't the two of you focus on finding ways to get more people using tanning lotions and then you will both be too busy making deposits in your bank accounts to indulge in crap like this.

HELP US SELL MORE LOTION!

Enough, already.

Don

PS: One of the two of you must decide to act like an "adult" in order to stop this embarrassing (to us) public lack of manners. Who will it be? Max? Greg? None of the above? Both of you!

MJ · 05-11-2002, 05:15 PM

Greg & Max,
I have been watching this unfold for months. I have yet to post publicly about this issue.
If I could state the obvious for a few minutes... please understand this is how most of US Salon Owners see this.

But first let me state that I am NOT taking any sides here.

You both sell lotion, Right????
There are enough Salons & Salon Owners to go around... Right???

Greg,
You are a small company and I admire your effort in staying diversion free. You have a long road ahead of you and I wish you all the luck. Max is a larger more established (excuse me ) "Maker of GOO".
Your main Problem (currently) as I have come to understand is..... Max is selling to RESORTS... that inturn are selling Caltan at or above "Suggested Retail"
I do not see this as a Problem as it has been stated in many threads, in many ways from many different salon owners.
If there are other issues please bring them to the table and stop the resort issue..
BTW as you are concentrating on Max ... have you noticed that John Abate' is not exactly staying diversion free either.
All of the diversion DID not happen in ONE DAY and will NOT be cleaned up in ONE day.
I am not making excuses for them. I have been pretty public about how I feel and intend like many to keep them accountable.

Max(Zues),
Sorry I couldn't resist!
I admire the changes you have made to CalTan
since you have took over. Changes are not easily implimented. and Thanks you for the effort. Your vision for the future of Caltan ..Is very nice, and ambitious. I hope you make it happen.
As long as you stay accountable and continue to fight diversion down to a bare minumum, Salon owners will be rooting you on. (perferrably to NO Diversion!)

Now, boys Please! Play Nice.
This really looks bad when The Goo God and Future God In Training .. go at it.

Shouldn't we all just concentrate on the tanning issues we currently have on the table?
Are you both joining us for Sunday night chat?
Mj

_________________
Tan Talk ModeratorTanTalk Rocks!!!
"And now back to tanning"--ChippI'm a Bigdog Member, are YOU?[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-05-11 17:52 ]

Soakinuptherays · 05-11-2002, 05:22 PM

Don,

I have but Max has decided to continue to insult me and attack me. Please read Fred88 and Max's distaseful comments on TanToday. Were I am promoting salon owners to attend the Las Vegas trade show.

Max, your version of what happen in Cleveland is laughable. I have constanly resisted putting the acount of what happen in Cleveland to avoid expose your personal unprofessional behavior that night.

My disagreement with you is professional not personal. You seem willing to do anything to attack be both professionally and personally.

I think it is plain to see that Max and his alter ego Fred88 comments are unprevoked and unprofessional in their disrespect for my customers and salon owners in general.

MJ · 05-11-2002, 05:22 PM

PS...
If you both pool your effort and energy you both have to to help out on FDA and ITA issues.. then we As Salon Owners could make more money.
And inturn BUY MORE LOTION!!!

So with my .02 cents in the mix....
I will not return this forum back to it's rightful and mpore qualified owner.
"The Don".
Thanks for listening!

Soakinuptherays · 05-11-2002, 05:53 PM

MJ,

I hvae no problem with Max selling to resorts. What I had a problem with was the fact at the same time he was selling to resorts he was running a banner ad that said he only sold to salon.

It was my goal to expose that false adversting so salon owners would know the truth, not to get them to stop selling to resorts.

Under my pressure, Cal Tan has corrected that False and misleading banner ad on Suntanning.com

A victory for salon owners.

Don Smith · 05-12-2002, 02:09 AM

Max & Greg:

So, which one of you gentlemen will be the first to post a "tip" here that will help us poor starving tanning salon owners sell more lotion?

Don

05-10-2002, 09:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Max: As you know, I have been one of your biggest "supporters" since you entered the indoor tanning industry. However, your "Bash Greg" act is getting old! Why don't you stop this counterproductive "nonsense" and concentrate on telling us why your products are better than ANY of your competitors (including Greg) and trust that tanning salon owners are smart enough (I know that is a "leap of faith"!) to understand what you are saying. My guess is that the "underlying problem" that has precipatated your "vendetta" against Greg is the "realization" that 50-60% of a tanning salon's "potential" is lost to the "brand" manufacturers (including Cal Tan) when they switch to PL. What YOU must understand is that it has been the "business practices" of the "branded" lotion companies over the past 5 years that has caused forward thinking tanning salon owners (including us) to develop their own PL line as a "protection" against diversion. You've "earned" a lot of "brownie points" from tanning salon owners because you have "tried" to stop diversion and none of us expect you to solve this complex problem completely. The fact that you have tried was enough for us to bring back your line to our salons! Tell us about your products and quit bashing Greg! Educate us, don't insult our intelligence. Don PS: And bring back Fusion! LOL PS To Greg: It would be nice if you followed the same advice I gave Max!

05-10-2002, 09:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Soakinuptherays I love Derf!! Join Date: Oct 19 2000 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,160 Rep Power: 24	Don, I have been critical of Max and Caifornia Tan for saying one thing then doing another. Max has responded by personally attacking me and my company without any facts to supports his claims. I have made my posting all about business. I am trying to engage in civil conversations about the industry but all he and Fred88 can do is post vicious personal attacks on me. The lastest example is our discussion on Private Labeling on TanToday. I ask people to read the civil exchange of ideas untill Fred88 decides to unleash unfair personal assult of me, my company and my customers. I have never bashed Max personally, except in very heated moments, in responce to his outragous unprofessional personal attacks on me. I have questions his business practices and policies and how he follow up with actions to support his words. My best example of Max/Cal Tan saying one thing when reality is another is the Suntanning.Com banner where Cal Tan was " Only sold to salons". When confronted with the fact that Cal Tan sells to resorts as well. His responce was they only sell resorts SPF products. I was able to discover that too was a lie, MGM sold Hot Chocolate. Cal Tan sells those resorts directly so Max would have know what products they were selling resorts before he made that comment. That was over 2 weeks ago, the banner still runs on Suntanning.com declaring that Cal Tan only sells to salons. Why is Max leaving up a banner ad has has been clearly shown to be a lie? Why would he lie in a post to justify it? It continues to run because Max has not told Lonn to take it down and Lonn is to scared to take it down without Max's permission. I do not feel it is bashing to point our the truth about a company that is lying to salons just to get their business. I think it is helping salons make informed choices. Have I been highly critical of Max and Cal Tan? Yes! If you are going to say you support salon 100% yet you do less than that you deserve to be exposed. Have I been critical of other industry giants? Yes! Ask ETS, Four Season, John Abate, Team Tan and the list goes on! Why do I do this? Everyone else in our industry seems to want to be policially correct and never tell the truth about what is really happening in the industry. My income is not tired to other industry manufactuers or distributors. No one can excert peressure on me to not was the truth. Salon owners deserve to know! I believe I have been critical without bashing. Bashing was not my intent, promoting change is my intent!

05-11-2002, 03:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Soakinuptherays I love Derf!! Join Date: Oct 19 2000 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,160 Rep Power: 24	Don, Max and his alter ego Fred88 have decide to continue to bash me on post were I do not even talk about lotions. I am soory to see them continuing to take the effort to personally attack me without reason.

05-11-2002, 04:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Max Recone Join Date: Oct 13 2001 Posts: 109 Rep Power: 23	Don: As you know you are one of the people i respect most in the tanning industry in addition to the fact that i value your buiness and yourand Pat's friendship. To tell you the truth, i did not even know who Greg was or what his firm did prior to about six months ago. Bruce from TanToday.com and Bob English from Suntanning.com asked me to take an interest in this, their words "bright and upcoming young man".... I decided to take their advice and have tried to get to know him..... As you may or may not know, i ran the Private Label Division of Playtex for many years and was involved in the manufacturing of Private Label Tampons, Rubber Gloves, Baby Items and Toothbrushes. Thru the years we had sold more than $100,000,000 in Private Label goods. I fell qualified to discuss the possible roles of Private Label as well as anyone in this industry. California Tan is committed to and will research any and all possible ways to serve you the salon owner and your clients. Now back to Greg.....at Bob English's request, i invited Greg to a dinner with the Gallagher family, the owners of the Suntan Supply Company, in Cleveland, Ohio....they are a terriffic distributor with a business totally dedicated to and specializing in serving the Ohio based tanning salon owners. Well to make a long story short, Greg perhaps got a little to let's say "tipsy" or whatever but proceeded to become loud and beligerant in front of about 50 of the Gallagher family members (their parents, guests and even their children) It was at this moment that i had asked Greg to stop, he would not, he then began a public trashing of California Tan.....Bob and Stephanie English apologized for this behaviour and for bringing him and escorted Greg out of the dinner party. They then drove two hours back to Pittsburgh....called several times to again apologize. I think it was at that moment, Greg must have snapped......if you look back.....from that night on.....he has been obsessed with the California Tan company......Bruce has spoken with him, Bob and Steph have spoken with him.....Lonn has i beleive spoken with him.......he has not and cannot stop the constant bashing of California Tan.... He has a number of clients: Rod, Steve Miller and others, who in support have become what i would call the "Greg Tanning Hoodlums" To date: they have made profitability claims that are not true, product quality claims they cannot support and have questioned the ethics of a company they know nothing about.... Alot of it, does not have any influence or real meaning....i asked Bruce to ask his posters to at least have some/any sense of truth in superiority posts....he then posted a "stop whining" post theme to all manufacturers...... I ask that you review each of my responses to Greg and the "PVL Posse" and give me feedback as to any time you have felt that we have been less than "top shelf" in our handling of their many attacks. Regarding other posters and possible defenders, as you know i have no influence over them, nor do i want any.....but i think Greg is going to find it tough to post propoganda, spams that bash or any other mis-information any longer.... I think Bruce did the right thing this week in firing Larry, Rod did the right thing in resigning (i presume in support of Larry) and it is unclear as to why Marty and Carol did leave (they have kept this quiet and i respect that). They have since recruited two excellent new moderators, each who i think will make TanToday.com a better place to be. Regarding Greg, i think your post, leads me to believe you think he is a good guy too! Mentor him then and help turn this angry man into the young businessman that you, Bruce used to, Bob and Stepahnie used to, Linda Bober used to and many others used to think he had the potential to be. Looking forward to your feedback Max p.s. if you would like to discuss in private i can be reached today at 917 971-0495

05-11-2002, 05:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Max & Greg: I, like a lot of people, am tired of listening to stories about your labor pains. WE WANT TO SEE THE BABY! And the baby, gentlemen, is information about (1) why your products are better than the competition, and, (2) how we can sell more of them and make more money! The two of you should resolve your silly "******* contest" by (1) phone; (2) fax; (3) e-mail; (4) letter; (5) having a "beer" and talking it out like adults; or (best of all) (6) having a "tough man fight" at LV with the proceeds going to support our work at the UVR Research Institute. Why don't the two of you focus on finding ways to get more people using tanning lotions and then you will both be too busy making deposits in your bank accounts to indulge in crap like this. HELP US SELL MORE LOTION! Enough, already. Don PS: One of the two of you must decide to act like an "adult" in order to stop this embarrassing (to us) public lack of manners. Who will it be? Max? Greg? None of the above? Both of you!

05-11-2002, 05:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 2,709 Rep Power: 23	Greg & Max, I have been watching this unfold for months. I have yet to post publicly about this issue. If I could state the obvious for a few minutes... please understand this is how most of US Salon Owners see this. But first let me state that I am NOT taking any sides here. You both sell lotion, Right???? There are enough Salons & Salon Owners to go around... Right??? Greg, You are a small company and I admire your effort in staying diversion free. You have a long road ahead of you and I wish you all the luck. Max is a larger more established (excuse me ) "Maker of GOO". Your main Problem (currently) as I have come to understand is..... Max is selling to RESORTS... that inturn are selling Caltan at or above "Suggested Retail" I do not see this as a Problem as it has been stated in many threads, in many ways from many different salon owners. If there are other issues please bring them to the table and stop the resort issue.. BTW as you are concentrating on Max ... have you noticed that John Abate' is not exactly staying diversion free either. All of the diversion DID not happen in ONE DAY and will NOT be cleaned up in ONE day. I am not making excuses for them. I have been pretty public about how I feel and intend like many to keep them accountable. Max(Zues), Sorry I couldn't resist! I admire the changes you have made to CalTan since you have took over. Changes are not easily implimented. and Thanks you for the effort. Your vision for the future of Caltan ..Is very nice, and ambitious. I hope you make it happen. As long as you stay accountable and continue to fight diversion down to a bare minumum, Salon owners will be rooting you on. (perferrably to NO Diversion!) Now, boys Please! Play Nice. This really looks bad when The Goo God and Future God In Training .. go at it. Shouldn't we all just concentrate on the tanning issues we currently have on the table? Are you both joining us for Sunday night chat? Mj _________________ Tan Talk ModeratorTanTalk Rocks!!! "And now back to tanning"--ChippI'm a Bigdog Member, are YOU?[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-05-11 17:52 ]

05-11-2002, 05:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Soakinuptherays I love Derf!! Join Date: Oct 19 2000 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,160 Rep Power: 24	Don, I have but Max has decided to continue to insult me and attack me. Please read Fred88 and Max's distaseful comments on TanToday. Were I am promoting salon owners to attend the Las Vegas trade show. Max, your version of what happen in Cleveland is laughable. I have constanly resisted putting the acount of what happen in Cleveland to avoid expose your personal unprofessional behavior that night. My disagreement with you is professional not personal. You seem willing to do anything to attack be both professionally and personally. I think it is plain to see that Max and his alter ego Fred88 comments are unprevoked and unprofessional in their disrespect for my customers and salon owners in general.

05-11-2002, 05:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 2,709 Rep Power: 23	PS... If you both pool your effort and energy you both have to to help out on FDA and ITA issues.. then we As Salon Owners could make more money. And inturn BUY MORE LOTION!!! So with my .02 cents in the mix.... I will not return this forum back to it's rightful and mpore qualified owner. "The Don". Thanks for listening!

05-11-2002, 05:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
Soakinuptherays I love Derf!! Join Date: Oct 19 2000 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 1,160 Rep Power: 24	MJ, I hvae no problem with Max selling to resorts. What I had a problem with was the fact at the same time he was selling to resorts he was running a banner ad that said he only sold to salon. It was my goal to expose that false adversting so salon owners would know the truth, not to get them to stop selling to resorts. Under my pressure, Cal Tan has corrected that False and misleading banner ad on Suntanning.com A victory for salon owners.

05-12-2002, 02:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,643 Rep Power: 26	Max & Greg: So, which one of you gentlemen will be the first to post a "tip" here that will help us poor starving tanning salon owners sell more lotion? Don

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