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09-03-2002, 12:20 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Join Date: May 2 2002 Location: 2621 W Main Suite 9
Posts: 616
Rep Power: 22 | Well you gotta hand it to these 2 companies. When it comes to providing technical data related to their lamps, they seem to be the most forthcoming. They even provide explanations for what the data means, and how they derive it. We hear a lot about 'Standardizing the terminology' so everybody can compare one lamp to another. Well, it looks like these guys are setting the standard in this regard. Pull up their data and its easy to compare these guys, one against the other. Seems the other lamp manufacturers would take note and join in. |
09-05-2002, 05:13 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Join Date: Aug 16 2002 Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 41
Rep Power: 0 | Thank you for the kind words, we are happy to provide data in any form for the customer to make an informed decision. Not all companies want this kind of comparison so I do not believe that this kind of uniform comparison will be done without FDA regulation of standards. |
09-05-2002, 10:24 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI
Posts: 861
Rep Power: 23 | Philips, Have you tried out your "FDA" model 7.0 yet? Any comment? Some Q's about the info in your brochure book handed out in Vegas: 1. Can you please bring the person pictured in the center (staple page) to Nashville? 2. Why are the UV output values listed all over the map as far as units go? It's confusing seeing watts, milliwatts, microwatts (on FDA radiospectrometric measurement reports), some per cm^2, m^2, or no unit area at all (flux). 3. Can all these "foreign" data points be converted to something we understand better? A. Total unweighted UV in mW/cm^2, 280-400 nm. B. Unweighted UVB in mW/cm^2, 280-320 nm. C. B / A = %UVB (FDA). D. MED/hr @156 J/m^2 per MED. (Eeff total) 4. How do you define 'persistent pigmentation' in mW? Is it a weighted tanning action spectrum, or just a MMD value? Cosmedico/Wolff uses Emelanog uW/cm^2 250-405 and Edir.pig mW/cm^2 300-440 nm. Soo - although I agree Philips and Cosmedico publish the best and most comprensive data available, even you two can't seem to agree on what units to report in! |
09-09-2002, 12:28 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Join Date: May 2 2002 Location: 2621 W Main Suite 9
Posts: 616
Rep Power: 22 | Gotta hand it to you Solarmeter, there is NO consistancy in the data that is released by the various companies. Sure would be good to have a set standard that everyone (lamp makers) would abide by. It would simplify, and clarify things for the salon owners. A guy or gal can get dizzy looking at all these numbers and trying to decide which lamp best fits their needs. |
09-10-2002, 12:18 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Join Date: May 2 2002 Location: 2621 W Main Suite 9
Posts: 616
Rep Power: 22 | Come on back Philips. We would like to hear more from you. There's more to gain than lose by being tuned into this website. Folks got questions about lamps, maybe you can help provide enlightening answers. Come back. |
09-13-2002, 02:41 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Join Date: Aug 16 2002 Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 41
Rep Power: 0 | Sorry for my absence, have to do some work once and awhile. I am happy to provide data in any format. "Have you tried out your "FDA" model 7.0 yet? Any comment? Yes, I am very pleased and have used it alot lately. Thank you Some Q's about the info in your brochure book handed out in Vegas: 1. Can you please bring the person pictured in the center (staple page) to Nashville? Unfortunatly she is a professional model. The lady swimmer is under contract with Philips and will be in Nashville. 2. Why are the UV output values listed all over the map as far as units go? It's confusing seeing watts, milliwatts, microwatts (on FDA radiospectrometric measurement reports), some per cm^2, m^2, or no unit area at all (flux). Sad to say that each manufacturer reports in whatever units they measure in, 3. Can all these "foreign" data points be converted to something we understand better? We can read the SPD in any format, the ones given are the most popular in Europe and therefore our standard reporting parameters. A. Total unweighted UV in mW/cm^2, 280-400 nm. Realize that this is a bare lamp measurement, watts / area measurements rely on external factors beyond the lamp. You can take the total lamp power and divide it by the surface area of the cylinder being measured. B. Unweighted UVB in mW/cm^2, 280-320 nm. C. B / A = %UVB (FDA). We give this in the detailed cut sheets D. MED/hr @156 J/m^2 per MED. (Eeff total) I'll have to get back to you on this one. I have Te values but I will have to verify the parameters to make sure they are the same. 4. How do you define 'persistent pigmentation' in mW? Is it a weighted tanning action spectrum, or just a MMD value? Cosmedico/Wolff uses Emelanog uW/cm^2 250-405 and Edir.pig mW/cm^2 300-440 nm. Again I will have to check. Soo - although I agree Philips and Cosmedico publish the best and most comprensive data available, even you two can't seem to agree on what units to report in! |
09-13-2002, 07:47 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI
Posts: 861
Rep Power: 23 | Thanks for your response. Look forward to hearing more re the ones you are checking on. Quote: ________________________________________ ______________ A. Total unweighted UV in mW/cm^2, 280-400 nm. Realize that this is a bare lamp measurement, watts / area measurements rely on external factors beyond the lamp. You can take the total lamp power and divide it by the surface area of the cylinder being measured. ________________________________________ _____________ So if the UV output is in watts, or thousandths of watts (milliwatts), I can divide that by lamp surface area in square centimeters to get /cm^2 ? Good. The F71 BP I'm looking at is 3.75 dia x 27.0 cm long (glass area). Would that be 101.25 cm^2 or something different? Is this true for both non-reflector and reflector versions? Quote: ________________________________________ ____ 3. Can all these "foreign" data points be converted to something we understand better? We can read the SPD in any format, the ones given are the most popular in Europe and therefore our standard reporting parameters. ________________________________________ ____ That explains it. Wish EU and US would use the same units. Especially Eeff ranges, and UVB ending in 320 vs 315 nm. Seems like the "system" wants to confuse us on purpose! Where is the WMO when we need them? _________________ Solartech[ This Message was edited by: solarmeter on 2002-09-13 19:53 ] |
10-10-2002, 12:35 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Join Date: Aug 16 2002 Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 41
Rep Power: 0 | You are right you can take the output and divide it by the surface and get irradiance. If you use the lamp surface that may give you a good value. Reflectors of course do not send energy out the back so the surface area should be the non reflector area. However no reflector is perfect so it will be a little less than caculated. I sent your persistant pigmentation question to the factory for an answer |
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