howardtheduck

First off, thank you both, I value your opinions and thank you for your contributions to this discussion. I do believe that some people would find it advantageous to pass the blame to one person or the other but here's the real deal. Correct, natural disasters like diseases do not discriminate and you would have to be an idiot to think that this storm was controlled by anyone. If you think that, than I need a prescription of whatever pot you may be smoking.
I agree Mr. B, there are lots of people to blame besides the president. My main question is why does he feel the need to take so many vacations? If the job is so stressfull that he needs that much time off from work, than maybe he should resign and give the job to someone who can take the pressure a little better. But that's enough on him.
Love him or hate him, people pay attention to fire starters like Moore. If you say you hate him because someone else said it than you need to check yourself a little and find out what your real belief system is. Do you follow like a sheep or lead like a lion? That is the real question. The role of leadership it seems has been given out half a$$ed to people who don't fit the bill and now lots of people are dead and homeless because of it.

mr belvedere

The president is "who" he is. And who knows, had Gen. Clark "won" (or been given, depending on how you see party politics) the Democratic Party nomination, and won the election, maybe the handling of this catastrophe might have gone differently. I like to believe it would, because I have a certain image in my mind of what "type" of man and leader a General Officer in the US Army "is". Regardless of who's butt is polishing the chair in the oval office, be assured that they are a "politician" first and foremost. The problem I have with all of the bashing, rhetoric, and blame game is that it is unproductive, demoralizing, and irrellavant. It is American to criticize policy, actions/inactions, and general conduct. It is American to demand integrity and leadership from our "elected" leaders, and hold them accountable when they fail. It is, IMHO, unAmerican to slay the character of our leaders for no other reason than we don't believe they should have ever been "elected" in the first place. IMHO, we have not had a "true leader of the people and the nation" as President since Kennedy. And we know (or do we?) what happened to him. I don't make excuses for Pres. Bush. I don't defend "him", the man, or what he does. He's actually responsible for a lot less than we think. I didn't slam Pres. Clinton for all of his short comings, personal and professional, when he was in office; although many of his actions and policies ran counter to many Americans' beliefs and desires. Thanks for allowing me this ramble. My point is this: every president fails, achieves, slacks off, get's it done, has questionable moral behavior at times, etc. The only difference from term to term is the amount of information that makes it to the public, and how popular the "man" happens to be at the time. -Belvedere

wonderwoman6

whats done is done and it IS the moron's fault no matter what yall say. bush should not have taken away the money to tighten up the levys that were in the proces of being sured up in case of a level 5. this prediction was mentioned 1 week prior to katrina hitting and i saw it myself on tv.


_________________
[ This Message was edited by: wonderwoman6 on 2005-09-09 11:02 ]

howardtheduck

Agreed Mr. B. You know, for all of your goofiness, you are a pretty straight shooter and aI just wanted to take the opportunity to say that I respect you and your words and honestly wish we had about 10 more of you on this forum. As far as leaders go,once again, history will tell the final story.

Ezliving_Jim

Don't believe everything you see on TV. Unless, of course, you saw it on FOXNEWS (just kidding there).
Quote:...bush should not have taken away the money to tighten up the levys that were in the proces of being sured up in case of a level 5.

There was never any plan or money at any time in history to bring the levees to where they could protect NOLA from a cat 5 storm. They were designed and maintained to protect against a cat 3 storm. The inevitable happened with cat 4-5 Katrina making landfall in NOLA.

The Mayor of NOLA and the Governor of LA must carry the primary responsibility for the consequences of this disaster in their city and state. They failed to implement the disaster plan that was in place for responding to a cat 4-5 storm.

The criminal charges here are malfeasance and nonfeasance by the Mayor and Governor. Lock 'em up!




_________________
Jim

"Entrepreneur Extraordinaire Since 1953"

Read "Why Sunshine Is Good For You And Why Doctors Don't Want You To Know"[ This Message was edited by: Ezliving_Jim on 2005-09-09 11:38 ]

Neon Beach

Quote:
On 2005-09-08 09:52:00, mikeytan wrote:
Maybe we should look at New Orleans local government. I mean isn't that what they are in office for? They new 30% of their population were living in poverty. Did they have buses lined up on Thursday evacuating their communities that had no transportation out? You knew it was coming, I knew it was coming, I am sure New Orleans new it was coming!
I always hate when national tragedies get turned into a political game! Wasted energy! Put it to better use!!
Yup!! Everything is the Presidents fault, ooooookay? Don't local officials have to foot some of the "blame"? Don't the residents who could have evacuated have to do the same? Get while the gettin' is good I say. If not, suffer the outcome. Good luck to everyone there.

Ezliving_Jim

President George W. Bush to FEMA Director Mike Brown, "Go home!"

News conference at 1:45pm.


_________________
Jim

"Entrepreneur Extraordinaire Since 1953"

Read "Why Sunshine Is Good For You And Why Doctors Don't Want You To Know"[ This Message was edited by: Ezliving_Jim on 2005-09-09 12:51 ]

Tan Talker

Quote:whats done is done and it IS the moron's fault no matter what yall say. bush should not have taken away the money to tighten up the levys that were in the proces of being sured up in case of a level 5. this prediction was mentioned 1 week prior to katrina hitting and i saw it myself on tv.

In a debate this is called an Ad Hominem attack. Wonder has decided to attack the person (whom I am sure she has never had a personal contact with to make her assumptions) and not present facts backed by citations from legitimate sources to support her opposition. This creates a fallacy in her argument.

It is irrelevant if someone is or is not a moron or less on for that matter. The person is not the problem and did not create the problem. Many in this discussion have identified their opinion of the problem and supported it with facts or illustrations and that is commendable.


And Ms. Woman, don't believe 1/8th of what you see or hear from the media. A spelling refresher would also help. (I am attacking your spelling not you personally. I am sure you are a WonderfulWoman)

MATT A

WASHINGTON (Sept. 9) - Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown is being removed from his role managing Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, The Associated Press has learned.

Brown is being sent back to Washington from Baton Rouge, where he was the primary official overseeing the federal government's response to the disaster, according to two federal officials who declined to be identified before the announcement.

Brown will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad w. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief and rescue efforts.

Brown has been under fire because of the administration's slow response to the magnitude of the hurricane. On Thursday, questions were raised about whether he padded his resume to highlight his previous emergency management background.

Less than an hour before Brown's removal came to light, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Brown had not resigned and the president had not asked for his resignation.

McClellan did not directly answer a question about whether the president had full confidence in Brown.

"We appreciate all those who are working round the clock, and that's the way I would answer it," he said.

The move comes as Brown faces questions about whether he padded his resume detailing his experience in emergency preparedness.

A 2001 press release on the White House Web site says that Brown worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., from 1975 to 1978 "overseeing emergency services divisions."

Brown's official biography on the FEMA Web site says that his background in state and local government also includes serving as "an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight" and as a city councilman.

But a former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, told The Associated Press on Friday that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager. Shadid said Brown was never assistant city manager.

"I think there's a difference between the two positions," said Shadid. "I would think that is a discrepancy."

Asked later about the White House news release that said Brown oversaw Edmond's emergency services divisions, Shadid said, "I don't think that's a total stretch."

Neon Beach

One of those jobs you'd rather not have right now isn't it? darned if you you, and darned if you don't?? Some has to be the....... scapegoat!!