SwedaGuy

And precisely why do we care about the AIDS epedemic in Africa? Perhaps we should be at least slightly concerned about the healthcare of our own citizens? Remember, Regan, the consumate actor, couldn't even bring himself to say "AIDS" on television...

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Support Bacteria...it's the only culture some people get![ This Message was edited by: SwedaGuy on 2005-03-11 15:15 ]

pcomo

Sweda, I know you're baiting me, but I'll bite anyway. The answer is simple: Because we can. Because, in the U.S., we already have one of the greatest healthcare systems in the history of man: our fresh water and sewage system. Most of us just don't realize how good we really have it every time we flush the toilet and get to wash our hands in clean water.

Sure, a great deal of our access to medical doctors and drugs may have been almost irreparably destroyed by the self-serving and beyond-greedy trial lawyers of the world (thanks John Edwards) and the even greedier drug manufacturers (****-bent on getting every one of us on at least 6-8 different - even if they have to make up the diseases to cure us of). But we should still address this epidemic in Africa because we are the richest, most powerful country in the world.

Most of our "poor" people live like kings compared to these people. Our poor people have innumerable chances to make something of themselves and take advtange of opportunities that those in Africa can only dream of. While there may be other situations in the world of a similar magnitude to the Africa AIDS epidemic (and its accompmanying poverty), American health-care isn't even remotely close. We, as a country are far too rich and, as a people, are far too fortunate to have just been born in this land of opportunity. We can't just look away and say we have too many problems of our own to deal with. What use is being rich if you can't help improve the lives of others?

SwedaGuy

Oh, gawd, are you SURE you're not a democrat?

engfant

"Wow. Add to the mix that the Bush administration has put MUCH more money into fighting the AIDS crisis in Africa than the Clinton administration ever did."

Bush spending more money than Clinton? Bush spends more money THAN EVERYONE. EVERYBODY agrees with that. Problem is, NOTHING IS GETTING DONE. Some Retard Republicans think that all that they need to do is THROW money at the problem and it's taken care of.

Bush seems to get this FALSE feeling of accomplishment because he has a bottomless wallet that he likes to take advantage of. A lot of jerky business people do the same thing. Now look at where we are. Our economy is being fueled by gas taxes, cig tax, and medications, reality shows. Production companies are putting on TV shows that cost NOTHING to produce and calling them "reality" to save money. What? Since when did TV become reality? The SECOND there is an EDIT, the reality part is gone.

Something to be pretty proud of.

ALL THIS SPENDING IS A SMOKE SCREEN as we WAIT for the ecomony of the US to be completely bankrupt. AIDS in Africa. Real important stuff. How about STOP F'n so much? Maybe invest in a little SEX ED.

All it took was one time with the book of STDs to keep my pants on. Although I could REALLY CARE LESS if people want to risk their life for some sex.

Talk about priorities.

I will agree that the war in Iraq is BLOWN WAY OUT OF THE WATER due to media and the internet. People are SO STUPID and forget that WAR IS WAR, not some FOX fake reality show.

People have nothing else to do but sit around with their perscription for a bottle of peace and FEEL BAD FOR THEMSELVES.
Keep telling people to find God cause they are sinners so they feel bad and keeps their minds busy.

(Man this is a choppy reply. Actually have some customers in this SNOW STORM!!!!)

pcomo

Sorry, you asked for it!!! And are you sure you're not a Republican? But, seriously, how horrible is it here? I'm tired of hearing about how tough it is for people in this country.

I don't feel guilty about personal abundance any more than I feel guilty about living in a country half-full of over-fed whiners sitting at home watching wrestling, eating Funyuns and complaining about how bad things are -- that's their right and it's a pretty sweet deal, if you ask me. But most good people wouldn't knowingly let their neighbor sit there and starve to death when they have an abundance.

And, if nothing else, it's "good business" for the country to create even more allies -- even if there isn't any oil there!

Okay, I won't keep preaching. But don't call me a Democrat -- that hurts.

SwedaGuy

I'm sorry, como, I had to step away from this a minute...we can agree to disagree, I suppose. Until I can go and see my doctor when I need to, let those third worlder's screw themselves to death...This planet is already overpopulated.

Do I lack compassion? Probably...Do I lack common sense? Not a chance...

Unless we plan on starting up the slave trade again, I fail to see how the general health and welfare of the African continent is any of our concern. And, don't give me this weinie liberal nonsense about how we were so lucky to be born in this country. Our ancestors didn't have any more "options" than these people you are trying to assist. They threw off a cloak of ignorance and moved forward. Then, they built US a country. Not everyone is equal, and not everyone can be. It is as simple as that...

pcomo

Okay. Agreed to disagree. A litle weird to have the liberals calling the conservatives liberals!

Do you at least agree that even if you do want to see a doctor, I shouldn't be the one who has to pay for it (i.e., we don't need to Robin Hood the health care system)?

Personally, I like to keep my doctor interaction to the absolute minimum, but if you want more health care services, go ahead. Just spend your own money on it.

You're a pretty hard-core anti-welfare-sponging kind of guy. So we agree that health care should be paid for by those that benefit from it (and employers who CHOOSE to offer it to their employees as an incentive -- not because Big Brother has forced them to provide for all the poor helpless little people), right?

SwedaGuy

Yes, I agree that people who use the healthcare system should pay for it...so how does Africa become exempt? Benevolence?

I've been fighting psoriatic arthritis for over 10 years. That makes me ineligible for insurance--don't think I haven't tried. I am currently on Enbrel, and I feel better than I have in years. I can get MYSELF out of bed now...without the medication a short flight of steps is tedious and painful. Can I afford the injections? At $1,500.00 a month? Not a chance...if it weren't for a long term study group, that the manufacturer pays for, I'd never have the chance to use it...

So...do I expect to receive this medication for free, forever? Not a chance...but I'll take it while they'll give it to me...In fact, I hope by this time next year I'll be making enough money that I won't qualify for their program...(keeping my fingers crossed that the busy season is good for us!)

So....say I needed insulin...how do you propose I get it? Or do I just die?

Suppose I get into an accident. Perhaps I can receive disability? That's all fine and dandy, but what about the $100,000.00 in medical bills I owe: I lose my business, my home and my car...and I still owe money...

I'm not looking for a handout, I've always worked. In fact, I turned down that doctor that told me he would file disability papers for me six years ago. I don't want to sit at home, unable to move, and watch the world go by. Yes, I like to keep my "doctor interaction" to a minimum as well, but when I NEED to go I do without something, groceries for example. When I should go...well, I just don't...

Now try to explain to me why someone who pays taxes here shouldn't be entitled to comprehensive healthcare, but dozens of other countries on a continent halfway around the world are worth helping?

Do some research on the AIDS drug cocktails, and the proper administration thereof...then tell me if you think we should send them a pile of rolexs' and teach them to read the time...

pcomo

Seems like the more I write, the busier I get and the more money we're making. That's my excuse for this long and rambling answer.

You have the answer on Africa. It's benevolence, grace, goodwill, charity and self-interest (opearting on the policy that it is generally better to help people and make friends then to ignore their plight and say it has nothing to do with me). It is not an obligation. I just thought it is interesting that the Clinton administration, despite Dems trying to paint themselves as the true compassionate party of the people spending less to help the utterly helpless than the "evil" Bush administration that cares nothing about others and only about oil and making more money for cronies.

US health care is more interesting. If healthcare were affordable then it wouldn't need to be provided by the government because we could afford it. If it isn't affordable, then we can't afford it as taxpayers either. No matter what, you and I are still the ones who end up paying. Out of curiosity, how much do you really pay in taxes a year? If you kept, for example, 1/4 of that, would that pay your medical bills? I say 1/4 because I'm assuming you'd agree that national defense (war aside), roads, firemen, etc. could conceivably take up 75%. If that 25% still wouldn't be enough then isn't something wrong? Why do you have to turn around and say "I can't afford to be part of this country, pay taxes and get health care, so therefore those who make more money than me need to chip in more taxes and pay for my health care"? I don't think you should have to.

Further, I don't think socializing our health care will fix your problem unless you want to fill out endless forms and wait 5 months to see your specialist. Although my experience is limited to talking to people and reading things, it doesn't seem to be working out that great where it is done. And if it is taken out of existing tax money, what happens when there is more suing and more insurance fraud and the costs go up even more -- just raise the taxes some more? I already spend $300 a month for a little coverage for my wife and I(pays 1/2 for prescriptons about the same for visits and procedures) and rarely see a doctor once a year. People I know who don't have coverage of any type, or money or family to pay, have ended up in county hospitals which are pretty crappy (from what I hear, similar to the "basic" hospitals people get under the socialized system) but at least they are getting medical care and they aren't being turned away.

You (and I) deserve affordable healthcare. And you are obviously no sponge. While I do think some money in the national budget should be used for contributing to resolving areas of intense and extreme human suffering (like Africa), I don't see that it should include healthcare for everybody. I might be totally wrong, but I'm afraid it will end up just being abused like welfare and end up uselss.

I think your anger is better focused on the politicians and greedy trial lawyers who have allowed the medical industry and insurance companies to be sued to a point where doctors now charge $180 to put a band aid on you, just so they can maintain their standard of living and pay the insurance costs. Not that greedy insurance companies haven't played a role as well.

I feel for you and if there were a charity that helped people who kick butt and work hard but need help getting a medicine to continue to do so, I'd put in. But that sure isn't socialized medicine. Meanwhile, we live in a capitalistic society. It's not about to change. If you want to keep your house and your car and TV and all that, and be ready to weather any person disaster, you really should have disability insurance and life insurance for anyone dependent on you.

You seem very intelligent and I really like to read your posts, even when we disagree, because your answers are a lot better than those who just sit there and say "uhhh...Bush is stupid". I suspect (and hope) you're the type of person who will be successful and be able to set yourself up financially to handle your own medical needs in the near future. Gotta go. Hope I didn't miss too many typos. This is a long post, I'll be surprised if anybody even reads half of it!

SwedaGuy

uhhh...Bush is stupid... (sorry, I couldn't resist )

Seriously, though, universal healthcare is a hot button issue. Some countries do well with it, some do not. I have a friend living in Denmark who says her healthcare is better than the company policy she had here. On the other hand, I've heard horror stories as well.

Bush or Clinton, I really don't care who contributed more. We're already sending our money overseas in the form of outsourced jobs and low quality imports. We don't need to spend money, hand over fist, fighting disease in someone elses country. Leave THAT to private charities. Call Unicef, or the christian childrens network...

Call me greedy, if you like, but I believe in keeping our money here, and working for our future...

I will concede that the ridiculous cost of healthcare can be attributed in large part to the need for high malpractice insurance. We're in a sue-happy society now. Children are being brought up knowing that if they don't like something, they can sue over it, even if they have no real merit. I can understanding bringin suit against someone who did you harm through malicious intent, but an accident? Really? Is it worth it?

That said, there is something to consider outside the malpractice angle. That is the relative comfort level doctors think they deserve. If the government stepped in an put limits on malpractice liability, it might help. On the other hand, if they put limits on the cost of certain services, there is not doubt of the benefit. I don't really see the medical lobby putting up with that...

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Support Bacteria...it's the only culture some people get![ This Message was edited by: SwedaGuy on 2005-03-13 13:08 ]