Go Back   tanTALK > TanTalk Central > Say What ?????

Say What ????? Does this forum have any limits? Nope -- not really. Keep your fights here and not in the other forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-18-2004, 07:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
Waiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Dec 4 2002
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 0 electricparadise is on a distinguished road
If people are wondering why I post other stuff instead of my own. A I can't write well,B They ( the reporters are over there.) C. I'l do anything to keep this going into another Viet Nam .& D, Somebody has got to point out the emporer has no clothes(in fact he has no clothes& he's jackin off all over this coutry)& nobody cares CAUSE HE'S A BORN AGIN BABY SAVIN GOD LOVIN CHRISTIAN THAT WILL KEEP US FROM HAVIN TO LOOK AT GAYS & LESBOS ON THE STREETSKISSIN 7 MAKIN OUT & DOIN THE NASTY IN FRONT OF THE CHILDRENS Iraq's Barbed Realities
A Reporter Reflects on How the U.S. Got Caught in a Trap of Its Own Making

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Sunday, October 17, 2004; Page B01

In July 2003, when travel around Iraq didn't require armored cars and armed guards, my translator and I took a day trip to Fallujah. Unrest was on the rise there and we were curious about who was behind the violence. Was it indeed former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party? We wanted to get some truth on the ground. Even if the reporting foray was a bust, we planned to stuff ourselves at Haji Hussein, our favorite kebab restaurant.

At the mayor's office and the police station, my translator, Naseer, tried to find someone who would speak with candor. "They're all liars," he declared after a few interviews. Then, as we were about to give up, a mayoral aide told us to look up the city's senior tribal chief, Sheik Khamis Hassnawi. "He'll tell you what's really happening," the aide whispered.

A tangled situation: A U.S. soldier struggles with security wire as the U.S. Marines break down camp defenses in Fallujah in April, ending a four-week siege there. (John Moore -- AP)

Outlook
The Post's opinion and commentary section runs every Sunday.

• Outlook Section

_____Live Discussion_____
• Rajiv Chandrasekaran answers questions about this article Monday, Oct. 18, 1 p.m. ET.
_____Free E-mail Newsletters_____
• Today's Headlines & Columnists
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Daily Politics News & Analysis
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Federal Insider
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Breaking News Alerts
See a Sample | Sign Up Now

In a city where residents often began conversations with diatribes against the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq, Hassnawi was a refreshing exception. Although he appeared to come from central casting, with his prominent nose, weathered face and checkered headscarf, he talked for much of the afternoon -- over Dunhill cigarettes and takeout from Haji Hussein -- about how Fallujah could be saved with the help of the U.S. military. The Americans, he said, needed to find a way to employ the legions of former soldiers and other disaffected young men milling about the city. Unlike Shiites in the south, who had grown accustomed to unemployment and poverty, Sunnis in Fallujah had thrived on government contracts, smuggling and graft. Postwar joblessness was a new, embarrassing -- and dangerous -- phenomenon. "Either you put them to work," Hassnawi said, "or they will turn to the resistance."

Late last month, as I was packing my possessions and preparing to return to Washington after 18 months as The Post's bureau chief in Baghdad, Naseer came to my hotel room and tried to call Hassnawi so that I could say goodbye. As Naseer kept redialing, it became clear how much my life as a journalist in Iraq had changed over those months, and how much things had changed for Iraqis. The telephone had become the only way for me to contact Hassnawi, who was holed up at home, too afraid to venture out. Like Hassnawi, I too had become a prisoner in my home -- the inhospitable Ishtar Sheraton Hotel -- unable to roam a country I had grown to love, forced to call people I once used to visit.

My folding road map, dog-eared from repeated excursions last year, had grown dusty on my bookshelf. By this summer, every road leading out of Baghdad had become too dangerous to travel. North to Mosul, west to Ramadi, northeast to Baqubah, southeast to Kut, south to Hilla, Karbala, Najaf and Basra -- all had turned into "red routes" in the parlance of security specialists, meaning too dangerous to travel. The capital itself was a patchwork of red (no-go) and yellow (proceed with extreme caution) zones, surrounding the American-controlled Green Zone. Neighborhoods where I had visited Iraqi friends for lunch were now too insecure to enter. And even if I was willing to chance it, my Iraqi friends didn't want to risk being seen allowing a foreigner into their house.

It had not started out this way, and perhaps it did not need to have turned out this way. To understand this better, it helps to know a bit more about Hassnawi.

Lured by his willingness to speak freely, I periodically dropped in on the sheik after our first meeting to get his take on the deteriorating security situation in Fallujah. He knew the ringleaders and their lieutenants. He was among the first to warn of the arrival of foreign fighters. He represented the city council in early talks with the U.S. military. But in our discussions, he always returned to the same point: Commence reconstruction projects and create jobs. To his dismay, many of his unemployed tribesmen were joining the insurgency, lured by $500 payments to participate in attacks.

Over time, it became increasingly dangerous to meet with Hassnawi. Early this year, insurgents and their sympathizers began threatening reporters and chasing them out of town. When Naseer and I went to see the sheik in March at his farmhouse south of the city, a second vehicle accompanying us served as a scout, ready to alert us with a walkie-talkie of any problems ahead.

Two weeks later, four American security contractors were murdered and mutilated in front of Haji Hussein. From that moment on, Fallujah became a no-go area for us, the first in what has turned into a lengthy list of places in Iraq where it is too dangerous to operate as a foreign journalist.

A few days after the grisly murders, U.S. Marines laid siege to Fallujah. The long-simmering guerrilla war erupted into an all-out, us-vs.-them conflict, with most young men fighting along with the hard-core insurgents to defend their city. Hassnawi and others who had advocated engagement with the Americans either fled or hid in their homes.

The Marines eventually pulled out and handed over security responsibilities to a group of former Iraqi soldiers who were cowed and co-opted by resistance leaders. With the city still in the hands of insurgents, Hassnawi has received multiple death threats, some of which have been delivered by his own tribesmen. Although he would like to meet with Marine commanders, and they also want to see him, it's been impossible to arrange. He can't risk being seen traveling out of town toward the Marine base. The Marines can't drive up to his house.

As a Sunni Muslim, he had every reason to oppose the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's Sunni-dominated government. He had never been tortured. None of his relatives wound up in mass graves. He had received regular payouts from Hussein's government, enough to buy a shiny new Mercedes. Even during my visits, I sometimes wondered whether he was telling us Americans what we wanted to hear, and what might pay off for him in the new Iraq.

But Hassnawi insisted that democracy was in the best interests of his country, even if it meant that Sunnis would have to cede control to Iraq's Shiite majority. He reasoned that a new government, with the help of the United States, could restore the prosperity that Iraq had enjoyed decades ago, when it was the envy of its neighbors. Of course, he wanted a share of that wealth, of the reconstruction contracts and trade deals that he hoped would materialize.

He was pained to see Fallujah wracked by violence. A dusty, charmless place, it is nevertheless a bustling way station on the road to Jordan and, apart from Baghdad, the largest city in the Sunni triangle. During our many conversations, he maintained that much of the unrest in the city could have been prevented had the U.S. military and the occupation authority devoted more attention and resources to Fallujah last year.
For months, the city was an afterthought. There was no full-time presence of U.S. troops until nearly three weeks after Hussein's government was toppled. By the time commanders in Baghdad realized that they needed to send more units there, Baathist leaders already had begun organizing themselves into insurgent cells that would later be aided by extremist religious clerics and fighters from outside Iraq.

What would have occurred if the U.S. occupation authority, the vast bureaucracy that was supposed to administer postwar Iraq, had heeded Hassnawi's advice? Could Fallujah have avoided becoming a cauldron of violence?

A tangled situation: A U.S. soldier struggles with security wire as the U.S. Marines break down camp defenses in Fallujah in April, ending a four-week siege there. (John Moore -- AP)

Outlook
The Post's opinion and commentary section runs every Sunday.

• Outlook Section

_____Live Discussion_____
• Rajiv Chandrasekaran answers questions about this article Monday, Oct. 18, 1 p.m. ET.
_____Free E-mail Newsletters_____
• Today's Headlines & Columnists
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Daily Politics News & Analysis
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Federal Insider
See a Sample | Sign Up Now
• Breaking News Alerts
See a Sample | Sign Up Now

As with so much else in Iraq, we'll never know for sure. I suspect that had there been an infusion of reconstruction funds in those early days, creating jobs and giving people some hope in the future, many young men would have opted not to side with the insurgents. But no such funds existed. Military commanders had only a modest budget to pay for small public works projects. It was not until this spring that the occupation authority began doling out large-scale contracts. By then, however, Fallujah was deemed too volatile for reconstruction work.

Back when I first met Hassnawi, his warning about the dangers of unemployed Sunnis had seemed insightful and foreboding. Now it seemed so obvious as to be banal. But it was also a reminder of the myriad opportunities the United States has missed during its occupation of Iraq.

The missteps began with U.S. forces doing little to stop the looting of government buildings and, more importantly, of vast ammunition depots. I'll never forget the sight of a bedraggled man hauling away porcelain bathroom fixtures on his donkey cart as I drove toward Baghdad on April 10, 2003, the day after Saddam Hussein's government was toppled. With even the plumbing up for grabs, it was clear that the U.S. military was thoroughly unprepared for the chaos and instability that had been unleashed.

Later, the U.S. occupation continued to fumble choices. U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi army and barred many members of Hussein's Baath Party from government jobs, putting more than 300,000 people out of work. Many of them later joined the resistance. Then there was Bremer's initial refusal to allow the formation of an interim government, instead antagonizing the most pro-American Iraqi leaders by relegating them to an advisory council. He failed to reach out quickly to the country's most influential Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. He hired staffers based on Republican Party connections rather than development experience, hindering the occupation authority's ability to fulfill its mission. And meanwhile the Bush administration waited months to ask Congress for the necessary billions for reconstruction and several more months to issue the first contracts.

Hassnawi still sees some signs of hope, no thanks to American perspicacity. Fallujah residents have grown increasingly weary of the presence of foreign fighters, particularly followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born militant currently regarded by the U.S. military as the preeminent terrorist ringleader in Iraq. Although the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, recently threatened military action against Fallujah unless the city hands over Zarqawi and his group, Hassnawi believes residents cannot do it alone. Although U.S. warplanes have pounded the city for weeks, Hassnawi contends that the only way to defeat the insurgents is for soldiers from Iraq's new army to enter the city, backed up by U.S. forces. He also warns that U.S. troops should not repeat their mistake in April by going it alone. Fallujans, he said, "will accept Iraqi soldiers on their streets, but not the American Marines."

What worries him most is that Allawi and U.S. commanders will miss the next opportunity -- as surely as they've missed so many chances before -- to establish some semblance of order in Fallujah. Despite almost daily airstrikes, the sheik fears the Iraqi and U.S. leaders will back off yet again from their seeming resolve to expel militants from the city before national elections scheduled for January. Unless that expulsion happens, he maintained, the Sunnis will be disenfranchised by the new political system. Fallujah is already under-represented in the Anbar provincial council. Representatives from the city did not participate in a four-day convention in August to select a 100-member national council. An inability to vote in January, he said, will in turn breed enmity among even the Fallujans who support Iraq's democratic transition.

As we ended our conversation, Hassnawi was despondent. To console him, I said I'd be back one day and that we'd share another lunch of Haji Hussein kebabs.

But on Tuesday morning, I got an e-mail from Naseer informing me that U.S. warplanes had bombed the restaurant. Insurgents had apparently holed up in there overnight.

"There is no kebab anymore," Naseer wrote.

Author's e-mail: rajiv@washpost.com

Rajiv Chandrasekaran, a member of The Post's foreign staff, has spent most of the past two years in Baghdad.
electricparadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 04:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
I love Derf!!
 
Ezliving_Jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 12 2002
Location: Virtual Reality
Posts: 2,421
Rep Power: 10 Ezliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant futureEzliving_Jim has a brilliant future
electricparadise: Not only can you not write well, you can't cut-n-paste worth a darn either.

I hope you are living in a dark blue place.


Ezliving_Jim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 04:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
Police Department
 
ALOHATANCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 14 2003
Location: CALIFORNIA
Age: 49
Posts: 4,436
Rep Power: 9 ALOHATANCA has disabled reputation
Good answer Jim, FYI EP no we don't have to get use to it!!!!!!!!!!! and in fact it's getting older than you...
you keep losing ground here because of your obsessivness...........slow down....when was the last time you tanned dude???? Or maybe your tanning too much...heheeh
ALOHATANCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 10:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
Waiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Dec 4 2002
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 0 electricparadise is on a distinguished road
Again, when you can't argue facts,or put a spin on it for the BUSH ,you attack the one posting it.Didn't even acknowledge the findings of the reporter that might have expanded the little knowledge you have. Might not do such a FINE job pasting as Jimmieboy does his....................& why am I so obsessive Alho? Didn't use to be.Really only voted so I could bctih....... TIL NOW .......... The religious Right is trying to take away the rights of women to control their own bodies/the right of people to form their own bond with whom ever they want to ..........The administration is going backwards on cleaning the air, the water ,our land. .They don't care about the Florida Panther ,more interested in opening a mine.Could care less about global warming. Bush walked away from a treaty that addressed that major ,major problem that the world faces,instead of trying to change or fix it.They now are stonewalling a CIA REPORT that is non partisan ,that names names ,that shows those in charge actually weren't doing their jobs ,That is ,PROTECTING AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!!!! So tell me, which one of those areas should we, me,us,as a people, not be concerned about? *** rights ?/womens rights?/the environment? Global warming? You call me obsessive,****,you don't even want to get into these discussions with my sister.She can spell & is a hellava paster. So count your blessings boys. Finally don't reply ,specially if you have nothing constuctive to add.An example is this post,why didn't one of you find something that shows another side to that conflict.Did you ? Nope,just attacked me. Talk about losers!

_________________
"IF YOUR'E PAYIN TAXES ,YOUR'E MAKIN MONEY.[ This Message was edited by: electricparadise on 2004-10-20 21:30 ]
electricparadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 10:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
I'm Banned
 
Neon Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 30 2000
Location: Ontario
Age: 45
Posts: 52,065
Rep Power: 0 Neon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond repute
Are you one of those guys that paces the cities streets and mumble to themselves?

Ask youself these questions?

How many cats do I own?
Is the collection of newspapers in my livingroom stalling the ceiling fan?
Do I wear 1970's Tweed sport coats?
Is the black tape on my Buddy Holly glasses starting to impair my vision?

If the answer to any of these question is yes, it's time re-evaluate your life.
Neon Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 11:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
Waiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Dec 4 2002
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 0 electricparadise is on a distinguished road
You really should move to a warmer climate ,I think you are getting way to much carbon monoxide. Again answer the question or get some fresh air.
electricparadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 11:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
I'm Banned
 
Neon Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 30 2000
Location: Ontario
Age: 45
Posts: 52,065
Rep Power: 0 Neon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond reputeNeon Beach has a reputation beyond repute
Carbon monoxide? Must be Bushes fault?

Answer the question? Was there a question in there somwhere? No one actually reads all of those posts. I gave up on answering essay questions back in 1980!

Kerry is a farse, a used car salesman that wants to sell his shoddy wears to whomever will listen. If I have to hear "I have a plan." one more time I'll be climbing the bell tower and all the U.S. military that Kerry recalls from the fight on terrorism will have to shoot me out of it!
Neon Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 11:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
Waiting Confirmation
 
Join Date: Dec 4 2002
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 0 electricparadise is on a distinguished road
I'l condence it just for you little one up north .Question is should we treat women's bodies like cattle? Question is should we allow this administration to continue to pollute the air& allow logging & mining on puplc land w/out cleaning up their mess? Should we try to stop global warming ? There were more ,but I don't want to over tax a mind that hasn't been used since 1980. As far as Kerry's "I have a PLan" ,at least he has one. Only plan Weed has is to dismantle the Gov. by burying it in debt.Doing a mighty fine job so far.
By the way .tell us ,if you want to write a tiny sentence, what YOU really think of Canada's health benefits for the citizens of Canada? See, now there is a question only you can answer, & trust me people down here would love to know what common citizens of other coutries think of Nationalized health plans.(sorry if I called you common,no slur intended)
electricparadise is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
-->



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Too hot? Try Iraq Ezliving_Jim Say What ????? 1 07-27-2005 03:35 PM
\"miserable failure\" electricparadise Say What ????? 60 11-09-2004 11:11 AM
Great article on Iraq electricparadise Say What ????? 3 10-15-2004 04:46 PM
REASON #7 (Y\'LL KNOW THE REST) electricparadise Say What ????? 1 09-10-2004 01:59 PM
Iraq CHUNN Say What ????? 5 01-19-2003 04:20 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright 2008 Applehat Studios