MJ

Bruce,
The future of this industry is very important to me and all of the members of this board. Why do you chose to assume that isn't? Is something, I will never understand.

I voiced my concerns on the way you addressed this issue. The sexist pig nuances are very evident. If you wish to rally the troops to get behind you.. you have chosen the wrong approach.
Get off the dumped single mother, with and axe to grind rant.. and speak of the real issues.
Like many others, I wish to find out why "ERIN BROCKOVICH" was chosen to speak at the ITA trade show...
What can she bring to the tanning industry?
Other than unnecessary debates from people in politics that no Absolutely nothing of the positive effects of tanning.
They only appear to hear and back the "UNSCIENTIC STUDIES" and turn a blind eye to the facts. Giving the Derms and other "powers that be" fueling the continued negative press that plagues our industry.

OR>>>>

She may actually help the industry...like Don pointed out. How???? I really would like to knpow...The jury is out..
I and many other would really like to hear the reasoning behind ITA chioce.

The second issue is:
The $35,000 they are paying her to speak.
Not only is this an outragious amount. BUT the ITA could infact be hiring their own assasin (of sorts) and not just paying but inviting the wolf into our den.

As i stated the money would be better spent in more training, national ad campaign, anything to increase the education ond explian the benifits of indoor tanning .
What I am confused on is ...
What is ITA reasons for chosing "ERIN BROCKOVICH"??"
Does anyone wish to comment on that?
Once these questions and more are answered I am sure that all of us can make our own decisions on which side of this debate we want to be on.
Should WE dicide that the ITA is completely unfounded on chosing Erin.

THEN>>> we need to ban together and figure out what's the next logical step in getting the ITA to "DUMP HER"...As you so eliquently put it.
I am positive of one thing though. You are not the PERSON I would chose to represent me or our industry

Reguardless, of what TTer's and Tantalker's and other boards feel about each other.This is a issue that has to be dealt with in a manner that you seem to be incapable of, in my eyes. Your original post on this issue is proof positive that I am right about your true nature.It proves beyond any doubts, I may have previously had that it isn't just a online get more hits kind of game.

AGAIN I ASK ......WHAT DOES THE ITA GAS TO SAY ABOUT OUR CONCERNS???

Mj

MJ

Bruce,
ONE MORE QUESTION.....

If not Erin.. who in your humble opinion.. would be a "GOOD for the industry" speaker?
Mj

AlexR

MJ,

If you have ever had the pleasure of attending the Chicago show when it was still in existance then you would know without a shadow of a doubt what a 'good, educational show' that benefits every salon owner in attendance should be like. Ask Don, he'll tell you.

The ITA and Smarttan shows have never measured up (not even close) to the Chicago shows in ANY capacity whatsover. The ITA/Smarttan shows have been the sizzle without the steak since the beginning of time.

This latest move once again proves how they are completely out of touch with our business. There is absolutely nothing that Erin Brokovich can bring to the table that will benefit you, me, or anyone in this business. The ITA is obviously just trying to star-strike you with her presence. They think you are all idiots (you're not!), they think you're looking for a motivational speech (you're not!), and they think that you will be so enthralled with Erin's celebrity status that you'll be lining up with glee buying your tickets to see her highness speak (you won't!).

As growing and developing salon owners that most of you are, I don't believe that you're so unsophisticated and naive to bite on this hook that they're throwing at you. I believe that ALL of the online population (rivalries or not) WANT what's good for your business and our industry. And I wholeheartedly believe that bringing in the likes of Erin Brokovich (with her history of lawsuits) is an irresponsible and practically insulting act of the so called 'powers that be.'

Please guys/girls, save the Bruce attacks and board rivalry games for another topic. I think that this is serious and deserves a united front from all the online communities. As someone once said here, in real life many of us could be friends - so let's not play our little flame games this time, OK?[ This Message was edited by: AlexR on 2002-04-14 16:07 ]

Don Smith

Rayz:

To reiterate, I "called you out" because of what you said about the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry. You can "spin" and "squirm" all you want to but you can't change the fact that your comments were in poor taste (I wonder why you haven't posted my comments on your website. Could it be that they "cut to the chase" and you didn't care to respond to them?).

You said "Ad Hominem Attack" from the Latin, "To Attack the person" and that proves, once again, that you don't take the time to do your homework.

IF you HAD done your homework, you would have learned that "Ad Hominen" is defined as "appealing to a prejudice rather than to reason" and that is my problem with your original post. You employed every negative "cliche" about "bimbo's" to describe the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry in a CLEARLY prejudicial manner. For shame!

What concerns me is that (so far) I am the only one protesting your misogynistic behavior. Why aren't others, especially women (including those who patronize this website), taking exception to your disparaging remarks? Where are you, ladies? Surely you don't agree with how Bruce described you!

YOU have decided to be judge and jury regarding ITA's decision to have Erin Brockovich speak at Nashville-2002 WITHOUT KNOWING ANY OF THE FACTS BEHIND THEIR DECISION!

And now you call for a "Dump Erin Brockovich" movement (just like you called for a "boycott" of renewing memberships in Smart Tan) without knowing the "why's and wherefore's" behind their decision to have her speak. Moreover, the "defense" of your action is to use decidedly prejudiced quotes from unquestionably biased authors.

So I have a few questions for you.

1. Do you have so little faith in the "wisdom" of rank and file tanning salon owners to make up their own mind regarding whether or not they will support ITA's decision (if no one shows up, that will send the ITA BOD a powerful message!) that YOU (of all people) must make their decision for them?

2. What dramatic "harm" will befall the indoor tanning industry by having her speak? You remind me of the college administrators who will not let opposing viewpoints be presented on campus today in their attempt to mandate their version of political correctness. We are all capable of hearing what she has to say and making up our own minds regarding her comments. (I have a lot of confidence in the ability of most tanning salon owners to figure out (for themselves) what is right and what is wrong. Do you?)

3. Have you considered the possibility that having Erin Brockovich speak at Nashville-2002 just might cause more tanning salon owners to realize that they must VOLUNTARILY adhere to the highest professional standards in order to protect themselves?

4. Have you informed the people who pay attention to your "rantings and ravings" that the "science" supports the indoor tanning industry and NOT the position taken by our enemies? This "fact of life" is VERY important should there ever be a "nuisance" legal action launched against the indoor tanning industry (which is why, Rayz, I spend so much of my time keeping up to date on the scientific literature pertaining to our industry).

5. In the spirit of fairness, why haven't you posted comments favorable to Erin Brockovich?

6. When will you publicly appologize to the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry?

Don



[ This Message was edited by: Don Smith on 2002-04-14 15:58 ][ This Message was edited by: Don Smith on 2002-04-14 16:05 ]

MJ

Alex,
Thank you for your take on the ITA/Smart Tan Association. And for your opinion of this online BS.
I also would like to piont out that as of 2002 I am not a Smart Tan Member. I did not attend the Vultureville (Nashville) in 2001 nor will I attend in 2002 or any other year.
Since I am new to the tanning industry the first show I went to was the Nashville Trade Show and was absolutely discusted.

I did however go to the last CHICAGO trade show and I found it VERY INFORMATIVE and I truly enjoyed myself... NOT to mention learned a lot about the industry.
I share your concern for the future of the industry and I too think we should hold ITA accountable for their actions..
Some will say that as a NON member I have no say...
Not true...
As a member do you have any say?
If they claim to represent our industry...
that is made up of salon owners... then we all have a right to our opinions and should be heard.
Screaming and kicking about a speaker we did not chose is not going to get us anywhere. I notice that the ITA has yet to respond to any of these posts on all the boards..
Is it because they could give a rats A$$ what we think of their choice for speaker?

I hope that her presence is not going to do what Bruce predicts... But I will not be their to witness the actual event..
I will however have to deal with the after effects of ITA's decision to let her represent US..
I just can hope that it will be for the good.
MJ

fungirlz

Don.. I am here.. I am reading.. I could care less what Bruces opinion of me is.. He doesn't know me and probably never will.
I know what I am all about, and I know quite a few wonderful women in this industry..
His words mean nothing to me..
You know sticks and stones kind of thing..

What concerns me is that (so far) I am the only one protesting your misogynistic behavior. Why aren't others, especially women (including those who patronize this website), taking exception to your disparaging remarks? Where are you, ladies? Surely you don't agree with how Bruce described you! Don

Bruce can describe me any way he wants to.. It matters not.
You are a man of manners Don.. I appreciate you stepping up and defending us..

What I see is that the ITA is making a call here and I want information..
If it takes sifting through the trash to obtain the facts..then I'll put on my boots and gloves and begin to dig until I find the facts.

You are a wonderful man Don..

I'd like to know if we have a say in who does the speaking.. or is this a done deal already?

I still would like someone from ITA to explain Why they chose her..

Mj.. you wrote a wonderful post.. I love you babe'..

In answer to your question Rayz.. No I do not watch Oprah..or for that matter I watch very little television.

CHUNN

To date I don't believe the ITA has made a presence on the boards.

Rich C

Other's aren't making a big deal about it Chris because it's not that big of a deal to begin with.

Don, did you pay Ditka $35,000? Don't you find that a little ridiculous?

Sheila in Minnesota

Greetings to all my Pals here at TanTalk.com!
I have only just gotten to visit this issue here - - but was aware of the concerns that my gender was taking a beating because of this Tempest of Erin.

I have read much today on this issue. And all posters have pretty much offered some very valid arguments both pro and con to the ITA choice of speaker and what it could potentially mean to our industry.

Don ~ no disrespect to you my love, but I take no offense to the view point that many of our colleagues within this industry would in fact be drawn to the likes of Erin B . . .. Ms. B is smart and has the street smarts of a Cappo Regime ~ and within 2 beers would have enough information to twist into a Geraldo Rivera Special Report . Would her information be factual? Does that matter? It would be Manipulated and Hyped that truth and science take a back seat to sensationalism.

Rather, I take offense that a group that I am trying to support (ITA) would think so little of me (and my colleges) that this choice of speaker was even considered.

This industry is NOT so lacking for Talented, Knowledgeable speakers we should need the glitz of Litigation Hollywood Style.

Bruce voiced his opinion that the choice was made to "tempt the salon owner segment" to the show . . .. Similar to the "Free Lotion Seminars" that sadly, are not as effective as they could be, due to the participants failure to focus on the information and training and stop fantasizing about the sale price received for a bit of goo.

I think what the Online Communities have shown, is that while we bicker and fight with each other on personal levels ~ the real issues can be discussed, debated and moved on like industry adults. As players in this industry - we are all equals when it comes to having the responsibility to protect the industry . . . it is NOT solely the job of the ITA or Smart Tan International or even the owners of these boards - - -

The invitation here is to drop the colored glasses we use when we view each other on the personal battles - and review the information provided . . . try not to let comments on Blonde Hair (and mine is blonde ) or styling of shelter - derail the path of information. The potential for harm to our industry is real - - and we can ask our ITA / ISTN folks to stop it before it becomes a reality. I am not worried that by doing so would make us appear to have something to hide ~ I hide nothing (much to your horror) . . . but~ Don, Mike, Bruce, Lon, the ITA, ISTN and all the lovely men and women of the Indoor Tanning Industry know that truth can be manipulated in the hands of the beholder . . . caution for all of us should be considered whenever you invite someone with the Track Record that Erin B has . . . love Coach Ditka - - and the worst he could do to me is tackle me ~ Erin and co.

That's another issue.

Let's stay smart, stay focused and arm ourselves with the information to make the right decisions for ourselves. K?

Sheila

Don Smith

~~Sheila:

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to justify the money your father spent on dancing lessons BUT quit "tap dancing" around the REAL issue!

Once again, here's what your "Master" said and my response to his misogynistic comments:

- The "theme" of this thread started out to be a protest of ITA's decision to have Erin Brokovich be a "keynote speaker" at the November meeting.

- However, it soon disintegrated into a mysogynistic attack on the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry.

- He said:

- "How many bimbo's do we have in our salon segment, all like Erin, losers, blonde, can't make good decisions on men, or shall I say...and please forgive me for this,...ALL trailer trasher's of the world? These are the "Hobby Salon Segment" in our business financed by the older man, or the rich hubby, not profitable, but in the tanning business because it looks like a fun thing?"

- Then, he "lumps" the "wonderful women of tanning" together unfairly and insultingly when he said:

- "Take those gals, and there are MANY in tanning with salons, WHY will they love to listen to Erin? (Because) They can EMOTE and RELATE to other losers of the world (like you, Bruce?)! This is your Oprah Winfrey fan, the soap opera crowd, they like sob stories, they live for feeling sorry for those, that like themselves, make nothing but endless bad choices in their lives."

Now, ~~Sheila, quit "tap dancing" and tell me whether or not you condone what he said.

What Bruce Shoenfelder said about the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry transcends any "controversy" about whether or not Erin Brockovich should (or should not) speak at Nashville-2002.

Or, perhaps, words like "How many bimbo's do we have in our salon segment, all like Erin, losers, blonde, can't make good decisions on men, or shall I say...and please forgive me for this,...ALL trailer trasher's of the world? These are the "Hobby Salon Segment" in our business financed by the older man, or the rich hubby, not profitable, but in the tanning business because it looks like a fun thing?" are suddenly "politically correct" and acceptable to the indoor tanning industry now.

Well, ~~Sheila, NOT IN MY WORLD they aren't acceptable because I absolutely refuse to condone or excuse behavior like this!

Don

PS To Bruce: You still owe the wonderful women of the indoor tanning industry an apology!