I need help..

MJ · 04-04-2002, 10:38 AM

I will tell you up front, I have little knowledge of the technical side of tanning..
and the science of tanning is getting a little clearer these days,
But I would like to start at the beginning if you have the time.
Don't laugh.. but ..There are probably alot of newbies out there wondering the same.
What exactly are MEDS?
What exactly determines the tan time exposure limit in a bed?
And Please keep in mind I don't speak Chinese..(tanning UV lingo)
LOL
Mj

_________________
TanTalk Moderator
TanTalk Rocks!!!
"And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!"[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 10:43 ]

Chippp · 04-04-2002, 10:51 AM

read my old posts as to what MED is.
I was the first one tell about MED on here.

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TanTalk

Tanning Booths, for people that want only the very best. Don't get booth envy, get a booth.
Fast, Comfortable, Dark Tanning and Hygienic.[ This Message was edited by: Chippp on 2002-04-04 10:55 ]

MJ · 04-04-2002, 10:55 AM

Which would be located....Open, Managing, whichic forum?.. where???
mj

Don Smith · 04-04-2002, 11:20 AM

MJ:

An excellent suggestion!

However, I am going to "start" with something we should all understand even before understanding what an MED (minimal erythemal dose) is.

We start all of our new employees out with a discussion of the reciprocal relationship between tolerance to UVR (t-UVR) and sensitivity to UVR (s-UVR). (t-UVR and s-UVR should be thought of as opposite sides of the same coin.)

1. Our "t-UVR" (tolerance to UVR) is the level of exposure to ultraviolet radiation (UVR) that we can be exposed to without sunburning. (Too much UVR is OVEREXPOSURE; too little is UNDEREXPOSURE; the correct amount is sensible, moderate and responsible EXPOSURE!)

2. Our "s-UVR" is how we react to a given level of exposure to UVR. (We all know that a skin subtype 3A has a lower s-UVR (and higher t-UVR) than does a skin subtype 2A. That's why we need to start a 2A off the first session at a lower exposure time (usually 4 - 5 minutes in a 20 minute sunbed) than we start a 3A off (usually 8 - 9 minutes).

Let's take a look at why t-UVR and s-UVR are important to us.

1. We are, IMHO, in the "business" of helping our clients to increase their t-UVR (tolerance to UVR) so that they don't sunburn and, notwithstanding the fact that the anti-tanning segment of the dermatology community says that tanning doesn't increase t-UVR, we prove them wrong over a million times every month in the USA. How? We start off our new clients at 0.75 MED and GRADUALLY increase the "dose" of UVR until we reach 4.0 MED - a 5.33 times increase in t-UVR!

2. We know that s-UVR (sensitivity to UVR) is "real" because we have all had clients who were tanning for the full MTI (maximum timer interval) in a sunbed (20 minutes, for instance) and then sunburned. Why did this happen? The client ingested a substance (usually a photosynthesizing drug) that increases their s-UVR (sensitivity to UVR) and, therefore, they can no longer "tolerate" the full 20 minutes. (That's why we have to CONTINUALLY ask our college and high school tanners if they are taking Accutane, a VERY potent photosensitizer.)

So what is a MED? A MED (minimal erythemal dose) is the "dose" of UVR that can be tolerated without sunburning. Thus, MJ, one MED is our t-UVR.

Keep in mind that there is a lot of confusion about how to define a MED. That's why the FDA recommended (at the 2/7 & 2/8/02 meeting) that we adopt the term SED (Standard Erythemal Dose) and "define" it as a certain "dose" of UVR. [Note: If you are all interested, I'll explain how one SED relates to one MED in a future post.]

Here are the "MED" related terms that tanning salon owners need to understand.

1. 0.75 MED. This is the initial "dose" that can be administered by our sunbeds.

2. 1.0 MED. This is the t-UVR level, above which we will sunburn. Some photobiologists refer to 1.0 MED as the TTB (time to sunburn).

3. 4.0 MED. This is the maximum "dose" of UVR that can be delivered by our sunbeds. (This is also known as the te time. Thus, te time is synonomous with time to 4.0 MED.)

I hope this helps. IF I have failed to "splain" anything so you all understand it, let me know and I'll give it another try.

Don

MJ · 04-04-2002, 11:57 AM

"The Don",
Thanks, I think it finally makes sense now.
I had to read it twice....Maybe it was the UVR part that was missing in other MED thread.. I would get LOST!

I's a got it.. now..
No need to "splian it ageen..
Soo in future post you will be terming it SED?
Mj
LOL

MJ · 04-04-2002, 09:07 PM

Okk so for the second Question...I will use my terms please give me a little room here..
I am learning..
Correct me if I am wrong..
The maximum tan time is determined by the bed being metered and when the bed emits, say currently 4 MEDs (until the stand measuremnet change to SEDs which will be 8 SEDs... )
This determines the tan time of each Lamp.
right??? Otherwise called MAD.
mj

_________________
TanTalk Moderator
TanTalk Rocks!!!
"And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!"

[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 21:14 ][ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 21:15 ]

Sheila in Minnesota · 04-05-2002, 04:08 AM

gooooood keyrisssssst!

Let's send this one off to the National Press!

MJ ~ you don't NEED help . . .

you need to hire a professional to run your sun shak!!!

Do you take a car on the Highway upto 100 miles an hour and then admit you don't know how to drive ~ and where are the Brakes?????

aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhgggg!

Now the reason for the fetus becomes clear.

See you round

Tan Talker · 04-05-2002, 07:05 AM

She still does not know the difference between a fetus and a dancing infant and she is questioning your intelligence?

"We don't know what we haven't learned, and we don't know what we can't remember" Will Rodgers.

Shezapatheticexcuseforaperson hasn't learned and can't remember much. One must rehearse information to keep it in the long term memory.

Thanks Sheza for helping our numbers though. It is flattering to know that an administrator from the Trash Talkin other board can take the time away from her very important job over there to come and post such poignant blather.
Your Toady Friend
Jim

Don Smith · 04-05-2002, 07:12 AM

MJ:

Ignore ~~Sheila. You know how it is in a classroom when the lesson is WAY over some of the kids heads and they "act out" their frustrations.

You are correct. A spectroradiometer is used to "calculate" the "te (time to 4.0 MED) time" of a sunbed and that determines the MTI (maximum timer interval) that is posted on it. The MAD (maximum allowable dose) is calculated (today) by multiplying 4.0 MED times the current "dose definition" of 156 J/m2. Thus, the MAD today is 624 J/m2 (4 X 156 J/m2).

If and when we go to SED, we will determine time to 8.0 SED.

The protocol we are now using at the UVR Research Institute calculates both (1) time to 4.0 MED and (2) time to 8.0 SED.

You get two gold stars on your forehead! (~~Sheila gets another black star - LOL - but think how great a gold star, when and if she gets one, will look on top of her black ones!)

Don

MJ · 04-05-2002, 10:50 AM

"The Don",
Give her a dentention...
And I going to worry about my "Sun Shak" and you worry about yours Sheila.
I am not going to walk around pretending to know something ..when I don't.
What I don't know, I will learn. That is why I am here. Why are you here? To spread the snippid words of joy. save that for your site, please.
Don't waste time on the PC clutting up our site with your attitude and personal feeling towards me.
Asking questions is sign of intelligence, pretending to know EVERYTHING is a sign of arrogance. I am not afraid of asking a question and learning no matter how preschool it may sound to you.
At Tantalk, we encourage everyone to ask, without fear of being called a moron by self serving, rude, ego manics that plague your site. Soo For the love of GOD....SHUT UP!!
So, please do us all a favor and go home, Just a warning. If have the need to post with your usual agruemenative nuances and aggressive ways..
Don't do it in any forums I am a MOD in. I will edit it, and all that will be left is a few pronouns and your signature.. Just thought I would warn you.
OHH and maybe if you lose the attitude and get a clue... when you grow up you can have a forum just like Don.
Don, where'smy sticker???
Mj

_________________
TanTalk Moderator
TanTalk Rocks!!!
"And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!"

[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-05 11:16 ][ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-05 11:19 ]

04-04-2002, 10:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 8	I will tell you up front, I have little knowledge of the technical side of tanning.. and the science of tanning is getting a little clearer these days, But I would like to start at the beginning if you have the time. Don't laugh.. but ..There are probably alot of newbies out there wondering the same. What exactly are MEDS? What exactly determines the tan time exposure limit in a bed? And Please keep in mind I don't speak Chinese..(tanning UV lingo) LOL Mj _________________ TanTalk Moderator TanTalk Rocks!!! "And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!"[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 10:43 ]

04-04-2002, 10:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
Chippp Join Date: Apr 19 2001 Posts: 2,556 Rep Power: 8	read my old posts as to what MED is. I was the first one tell about MED on here. _________________ TanTalk Tanning Booths, for people that want only the very best. Don't get booth envy, get a booth. Fast, Comfortable, Dark Tanning and Hygienic.[ This Message was edited by: Chippp on 2002-04-04 10:55 ]

04-04-2002, 10:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 8	Which would be located....Open, Managing, whichic forum?.. where??? mj

04-04-2002, 11:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,554 Rep Power: 10	MJ: An excellent suggestion! However, I am going to "start" with something we should all understand even before understanding what an MED (minimal erythemal dose) is. We start all of our new employees out with a discussion of the reciprocal relationship between tolerance to UVR (t-UVR) and sensitivity to UVR (s-UVR). (t-UVR and s-UVR should be thought of as opposite sides of the same coin.) 1. Our "t-UVR" (tolerance to UVR) is the level of exposure to ultraviolet radiation (UVR) that we can be exposed to without sunburning. (Too much UVR is OVEREXPOSURE; too little is UNDEREXPOSURE; the correct amount is sensible, moderate and responsible EXPOSURE!) 2. Our "s-UVR" is how we react to a given level of exposure to UVR. (We all know that a skin subtype 3A has a lower s-UVR (and higher t-UVR) than does a skin subtype 2A. That's why we need to start a 2A off the first session at a lower exposure time (usually 4 - 5 minutes in a 20 minute sunbed) than we start a 3A off (usually 8 - 9 minutes). Let's take a look at why t-UVR and s-UVR are important to us. 1. We are, IMHO, in the "business" of helping our clients to increase their t-UVR (tolerance to UVR) so that they don't sunburn and, notwithstanding the fact that the anti-tanning segment of the dermatology community says that tanning doesn't increase t-UVR, we prove them wrong over a million times every month in the USA. How? We start off our new clients at 0.75 MED and GRADUALLY increase the "dose" of UVR until we reach 4.0 MED - a 5.33 times increase in t-UVR! 2. We know that s-UVR (sensitivity to UVR) is "real" because we have all had clients who were tanning for the full MTI (maximum timer interval) in a sunbed (20 minutes, for instance) and then sunburned. Why did this happen? The client ingested a substance (usually a photosynthesizing drug) that increases their s-UVR (sensitivity to UVR) and, therefore, they can no longer "tolerate" the full 20 minutes. (That's why we have to CONTINUALLY ask our college and high school tanners if they are taking Accutane, a VERY potent photosensitizer.) So what is a MED? A MED (minimal erythemal dose) is the "dose" of UVR that can be tolerated without sunburning. Thus, MJ, one MED is our t-UVR. Keep in mind that there is a lot of confusion about how to define a MED. That's why the FDA recommended (at the 2/7 & 2/8/02 meeting) that we adopt the term SED (Standard Erythemal Dose) and "define" it as a certain "dose" of UVR. [Note: If you are all interested, I'll explain how one SED relates to one MED in a future post.] Here are the "MED" related terms that tanning salon owners need to understand. 1. 0.75 MED. This is the initial "dose" that can be administered by our sunbeds. 2. 1.0 MED. This is the t-UVR level, above which we will sunburn. Some photobiologists refer to 1.0 MED as the TTB (time to sunburn). 3. 4.0 MED. This is the maximum "dose" of UVR that can be delivered by our sunbeds. (This is also known as the te time. Thus, te time is synonomous with time to 4.0 MED.) I hope this helps. IF I have failed to "splain" anything so you all understand it, let me know and I'll give it another try. Don

04-04-2002, 11:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 8	"The Don", Thanks, I think it finally makes sense now. I had to read it twice....Maybe it was the UVR part that was missing in other MED thread.. I would get LOST! I's a got it.. now.. No need to "splian it ageen.. Soo in future post you will be terming it SED? Mj LOL

04-04-2002, 09:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 8	Okk so for the second Question...I will use my terms please give me a little room here.. I am learning.. Correct me if I am wrong.. The maximum tan time is determined by the bed being metered and when the bed emits, say currently 4 MEDs (until the stand measuremnet change to SEDs which will be 8 SEDs... ) This determines the tan time of each Lamp. right??? Otherwise called MAD. mj _________________ TanTalk Moderator TanTalk Rocks!!! "And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!" [ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 21:14 ][ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-04 21:15 ]

04-05-2002, 04:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,805 Rep Power: 7	gooooood keyrisssssst! Let's send this one off to the National Press! MJ ~ you don't NEED help . . . you need to hire a professional to run your sun shak!!! Do you take a car on the Highway upto 100 miles an hour and then admit you don't know how to drive ~ and where are the Brakes????? aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhgggg! Now the reason for the fetus becomes clear. See you round

04-05-2002, 07:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tan Talker Join Date: Jan 18 2002 Location: Lake Mary, Florida Posts: 1,020 Rep Power: 7	She still does not know the difference between a fetus and a dancing infant and she is questioning your intelligence? "We don't know what we haven't learned, and we don't know what we can't remember" Will Rodgers. Shezapatheticexcuseforaperson hasn't learned and can't remember much. One must rehearse information to keep it in the long term memory. Thanks Sheza for helping our numbers though. It is flattering to know that an administrator from the Trash Talkin other board can take the time away from her very important job over there to come and post such poignant blather. Your Toady Friend Jim

04-05-2002, 07:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
Don Smith Join Date: Feb 25 2000 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,554 Rep Power: 10	MJ: Ignore ~~Sheila. You know how it is in a classroom when the lesson is WAY over some of the kids heads and they "act out" their frustrations. You are correct. A spectroradiometer is used to "calculate" the "te (time to 4.0 MED) time" of a sunbed and that determines the MTI (maximum timer interval) that is posted on it. The MAD (maximum allowable dose) is calculated (today) by multiplying 4.0 MED times the current "dose definition" of 156 J/m2. Thus, the MAD today is 624 J/m2 (4 X 156 J/m2). If and when we go to SED, we will determine time to 8.0 SED. The protocol we are now using at the UVR Research Institute calculates both (1) time to 4.0 MED and (2) time to 8.0 SED. You get two gold stars on your forehead! (~~Sheila gets another black star - LOL - but think how great a gold star, when and if she gets one, will look on top of her black ones!) Don

04-05-2002, 10:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
MJ Join Date: Jan 21 2002 Posts: 3,060 Rep Power: 8	"The Don", Give her a dentention... And I going to worry about my "Sun Shak" and you worry about yours Sheila. I am not going to walk around pretending to know something ..when I don't. What I don't know, I will learn. That is why I am here. Why are you here? To spread the snippid words of joy. save that for your site, please. Don't waste time on the PC clutting up our site with your attitude and personal feeling towards me. Asking questions is sign of intelligence, pretending to know EVERYTHING is a sign of arrogance. I am not afraid of asking a question and learning no matter how preschool it may sound to you. At Tantalk, we encourage everyone to ask, without fear of being called a moron by self serving, rude, ego manics that plague your site. Soo For the love of GOD....SHUT UP!! So, please do us all a favor and go home, Just a warning. If have the need to post with your usual agruemenative nuances and aggressive ways.. Don't do it in any forums I am a MOD in. I will edit it, and all that will be left is a few pronouns and your signature.. Just thought I would warn you. OHH and maybe if you lose the attitude and get a clue... when you grow up you can have a forum just like Don. Don, where'smy sticker??? Mj _________________ TanTalk Moderator TanTalk Rocks!!! "And now back to tanning"--ChippMeet "Little Chunn Chunn!!" [ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-05 11:16 ][ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-04-05 11:19 ]

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