mouthybrat

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:04:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "April Flinn" <mouthybrat_25@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Subject: PTAF and Accountablility...
To: aegis@fdalistingconsultants.com




Dear Bob,

I am a concerned member of the tanning industry and I
would love to join in the fight to stop negative press
about the industry that I love. I realize that you
are a busy man, but in order for me to feel complete
confidence in the PTAF to send any contribution, I
need answers to some questions I have.

Please realize that the only way that I can contribute
to this cause is if COMPLETE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE IS
GIVEN AS TO EXACTLY WHERE AND HOW ALL DONATED FUNDS
WILL BE SPENT.

Here is my list of questions. If you don't mind, I am
going to post them publicly on Tanformation.com,
Tantoday.com, Tantalk.com, Tanningdivas.com and I will
be posting your answers as well. I am doing this
because I truly love this industry and I am tired of
all the fighting that is going on between the members
of all of these boards over this issue.

Bob, please realize that you are the only person who
can answer these questions to eleminate the distrust
that has developed on all of the boards. There are
several members of these boards that want these
answers. The answers need to come from you, as you
are the person who is apparently in control of the
money...

1. I realize that there have been numerous claims
from your supporters that you are not expecting any
compensation for your work on the fund. Is this true?

2. What expenses, if any, do you have for operating
the PTAF website? and how are these expenses being
paid?

3. I read in a post on one of the boards (there are
hundreds of posts on this topic, so I can not recall
exactly which board or who posted it) that stated that
the checks received and credit card transactions will
not be cashed or deposited until the full retainer fee
has been reached. Is this true?

4. If the checks and cc transations are being cashed,
is there an account set up that the money is being
deposited in?

5. If there is an account set up for this, will there
be a posting on the PTAF website with a treasurer's
report detailing how much money is in the account and
all transactions regarding deposits and withdrawls?

6. If there is an account set up, would you be
willing to post the bank statements (with all account
numbers deleted to protect from theft) so that all who
contribute to the fund can see for themselves that the
money is being used for the reasons that they are
intended?

7. Finally, will all participants who donate to this
fund have access to the attorneys, should they decide
to ask the attorneys any questions directly, or at
least have the name and address of the attorney that
their money is going to?

Bob, in closing I would like to point out that I do
not mean to sound like an untrusting person, but
please realize that any person who has put their time,
sweat and tears into a business deserves full
disclosure of how their money is being spent when they
are being asked to be a part of something of this
nature. It is simple business practice to have a full
accounting of income and expenses. I wish that I
could be the type of person who could simply trust
with blind faith all that this fund is built up to be.
However, in reality, I would not be in business if I
did not have some sense of control over where the
money I work hard to make is going.

I trust that as a business person, you realize that
this is not about personal trust, it is about business
trust. In business, where money is involved,
EVERYTHING must be SPELLED OUT, fully and clearly for
all parties involved.

I would like to thank you in advance for answering my
questions. I hope that after you answer these
quesions and I post them for everyone to see, that the
fund you are working so hard for will begin to
flourish. I believe that the PTAF does stand a good
chance of ending the media attacks against the tanning
industry, but it will only happen if the people who
need these answers get them and feel comfortable about
sending in money to support the effort!

Sincerely,

April Flinn
Hawaiian Tans
Marietta, Ohio


I hope Bob answers...

mouthybrat

From: "Bob Wagner" Add to Address Book
To: "'April Flinn'"
Subject: RE: PTAF and Accountability...
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:01:38 -0500




Dear April,

Thanks for contacting me. I'm not a very prolific
web forum participant, and try to remain clear of
engaging in what many outsiders regard as an
unchecked screaming match that does very little
to enhance the image of the indoor tanning industry,
especially in the eyes of those who monitor the sites,
such as the FDA and AAD.

I uncharacteristically volunteered my services to
Sheila and Christine, who were concerned about the
last AP release, and asked what could be done about it.
As my activities as an FDA Listing Consultant for manu-
facturers of non-tanning medical devices has allowed
me to gain experience in federal court litigation, I
made the suggestion of establishing a legal defense
fund to that end. Not understanding the tanning web
forum world, I did not realize that a rivalry existed
between the two of them, and became caught up in an
awkward online feud that left the former feeling
somewhat disenfranchised and bitter.

PTAF was designed to be a simple instrument to collect
funds with which to finance civil actions against any
person or organization who currently, or might wish in
the future to bash indoor tanning salons. It was born
of need for proactiveness in view of the ITA's unwilling-
ness to make such a stand. The successful examples
are many: The NRA, ACLU, NAACP, etc. Without a shield
of Athena (see: www.americanexportgroup.com), the 1st,
2nd, and 15th Constitutional Amendments would be meaning-
less.

The PTAF web site (www.ptaf.org) lists the names of
contributors and the total amount thus far collected. I
have posted numerous times that we will not cash checks
or charge credit cards until at least $10,000.00 has
been received. In the meantime, receipts and letters
of thanks have been sent out to each. Once the fund is
activated, and our attorneys retained, we will begin
posting information in the "Action Process Updates" page
of the site, as will relate to warning letters sent out
(and to whom), responses from same, and future litigation
transcripts (should it come to that).

Direct "class" access to the attorneys will be limited to
monthly or quarterly tele / computer conferences, depending
upon what we all decide. The reason for this is due to
the fact that there are simply too many "Chatty Cathies"
from the web forums who would run up the meter and waste
money, which is something I, as the fund administrator,
must attempt to avoid. Remember, my time is voluntary;
the lawyers aren't going to do this for us pro bono. If
that isn't good enough for those thinking about becoming
contributors, then the PTAF concept is not for them.

April, I have been in the indoor tanning industry for
nearly 21 years. I've been a salon owner, equipment
producer, lamp producer, and products distributor. Not
wishing to wallow in self-efficacy, there are very few
people who know more about the business, and can act
effectively as an advocate in this manner as can I. This
isn't about me, or a desire on my part to further some
sort of political agenda. I simply wish to help, if
possible. Should my efforts be disdained by a verbal
few, resulting in the trepidation and hesitance of others,
the responsibility of defending salons will once again fall
to the ITA, as it perhaps should have been from the
beginning.

Joining PTAF isn't the same as becoming an association
or social club member, but it isn't like giving away money
to a blind charity, either. The mission has nothing to
do with public relations, and everything to do with
brandishing, and occasionally wielding, a big enough
stick to ward / fight off evil, anti-American efforts on
the part of those who mean to destroy the industry by
ruining salons. Join us if you think we can be the kind
of rampart needed to do that job. Or, don't join us and
hope for the best when the next round of negative attacks
is released at the height of your season.

Please feel free to call me at (888) 765-2742 if you would
like to speak with me further.

Best regards,

Bob Wagner

gripmarketing

Great job Mouthbrat and Bob.

We have some experience in doing direct marketing for non-profits (who BTW, get a $.09 per letter postage rate while your business pays $.17). Your USPS and government supports non-profits, too through this subsidy.
What Bob Wagner, Ezliving Jim, and the PTAF are experiencing can best be summed up by a quote from Angie Moore, of the American Cancer Society as quoted in Inside Direct Mail copyright 2003:

“Q: There has been a lot of talk about the new type of donor that will emerge from the baby boomer generation. Could you provide a brief sketch of what this donor will look like to nonprofits?

A: These new donors are already involved and changing the way we’re communicating. We know they require more information on how charities spend money. They must be told where their dollars are going and how their involvement is truly helping. They will hold us accountable for our missions, and they will tell us how they want to be involved with us. They’ll look for the right match of their personal interest area (with) where an organization is focused. From my perspective, this is not a negative – this is an opportunity. These donors could be the most involved donors the industry has ever seen.”

Fewer charitable donors to all organizations make it harder to conduct acquisition like you’ve always done it. The key here is to focus on what you can do with today’s donors, who are making very educated and sometimes tough choices to align themselves with causes that meet their needs and standards.

That being said though, IMHO, there are a few cranky would of, could of, should have been donor-types out there that no matter the amount of disclosure, frank dissemination of how the organization and its members’ involvement is helping, and accountability for its missions is letter-perfect, just won’t be happy as a donor or helpful to the missions.

We wish Bob, the PTAF, and all those supporting it the best of luck and are pledging our support. Should the PTAF want to accomplish a fund raising campaign via direct marketing, we will happily donate the national list of tanning salons for Free (a $3,740 expense), and provide mail fulfillment below our cost.

pam

Thank you GRIP-Gary for your support of PTAF. I hope Bob's letter will quiet fears about this effort and his involvement in it. The fund needs numbers of donor salons as much as it needs substantial cash. We were told that we should have at least 50 salons to be viable as well as the $10,000 to retain the attorneys. This means that as many of us as possible need to support it in whatever financial manner we can. I have sent a copy of Bob's letter to all of the local salons informing them about this fund.

Pam

MJ

Pam reread Bobs reply...Still no answers.

tanfixr

Actually he directly answered 6 out of 7.
1) Yes the claims are true.
2) Not answered.
3) Yes
4, 5, 6) NA, since the answer to the implicit 2 part questions as they ware asked is, No checks aren't being cashed - yet.
7) No

Evelyn Wood reading and comprehension classes anyone?

MJ

ahhh tanfixr....quick send him your money!!! :eyeroll:
nevermind I will email him.....
wanna watch him slide out of directly answering DIRECT questions??
I will post his reply if I get one. :notholdingmybreathface:

tanfixr

Great. That would be my suggestion. Don't get me wrong though. If I were inclinded to send any money, I would not send any either until an email or direct conversation answered my questions.

Sheila in Minnesota

Dammmmmit Brat!! I really hate finding this schite on EVERY FREEKEN SITE - and I will keep it BRIEF here ~ per this Quote from BOBO .... Quote:I uncharacteristically volunteered my services to Sheila and Christine, who were concerned about the last AP release, and asked what could be done about it......

From my response to you on Tanformation.com Quote:** I never contacted Bob Wagner about the AP release, I replied to his contact to me - this has been well documented on this site.

The only thing not able to be DOCUMENTED is the phone calls between Bob and myself - - which is WHY no phone calls should be considered of ANY VALUE from the 'Call Bob' Crowd.

The quoted scenario is called 'spin'... just like PTAF was 'spun' in the IST write up.... and SINCE the reason for the season is to FORCE the AP and the DERMS to interact with HONESTY - I would prefer that we DO what WE are DEMANDING and leave the spin to the ITA.

It has been brought to this 'disenfranchised and bitterperson's attention that while Bob Wagner told me that no other person or group of persons was involved or contacted regarding this project - that (according to the Carlton's) this was NOT in fact the case. That getting my involment was gained with duplicity and deceit.

I never waste my time on people that cannot be honest.

And I never waste my time with the Carlton's ... they must be too sucessful for the likes of me.... (I am still waiting for that limpdick Jim to return my check since he does not want this industry being supported by the likes of me )

There are NO SUCH THINGS as 'lil white lies' for the Good of the Industry - - -

Here again is WHAT is the REASON for the level of dysfuntion on PTAF..... Cause it was NEVER an ONLINE PROJECT - there are 800 participants!!! 1/2 of those are duplicates!!!

Bruce Schoenfelder decided that Tanformation could NOT be the point of contact.... totally disregarding an honest assessment from me that NO SITE AFFILIATIONS would be served by this 'effort'.... that ALL were needed but even still - useless WITHOUT the MASS #s of all salons...

Yes - there are PLENTY of ugly gnomes in this one.... but never let it be said I am bitter without a reason ...

So without the ANSWERS to #2 ..... Without the ability to TELL THE KIDDIES the unspun truth and without the retraction to the misrespresented FACTOIDS from Bobs 'email' that I just discussed ... I would personally consider it a FAVOR if you keep my name OUT of this effort to 'teach the world to sing' ...

MJ ~ you got better things to do honey!! Adopt a dog, polish your nails, make carnations out of kleenex----- anything would be better than raising your blood pressure on this schite ....




_________________
[ This Message was edited by: Sheila in Minnesota on 2003-12-26 09:41 ]

pam

Quote:
On 2003-12-24 12:17, gripmarketing wrote:

...That being said though, IMHO, there are a few cranky would of, could of, should have been donor-types out there that no matter the amount of disclosure, frank dissemination of how the organization and its members’ involvement is helping, and accountability for its missions is letter-perfect, just won’t be happy as a donor or helpful to the missions.

We wish Bob, the PTAF, and all those supporting it the best of luck and are pledging our support. Should the PTAF want to accomplish a fund raising campaign via direct marketing, we will happily donate the national list of tanning salons for Free (a $3,740 expense), and provide mail fulfillment below our cost.



I agree with Gary on this one. I feel that the questions have been sufficiently answered. The poopooe stirrers (my words--not his) are gonna stir this pot until they find another pot to stir. I believe in the mission of PTAF and have faith in Bob's expertise to be our representative. Sometimes,for me, it is about having enough faith to allow people who know more than me to speak my case. I am trusting Bob to do this with my donation. The worst that can happen, as I see it, is that I have lost a few tax deductible bucks. I know some will agree and others will disagree on this philosophy but I feel nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Pam