Sheila in Minnesota

MJ ~ have no fear... I would never expand that amount of energy or emotion for a real god ~ never mind a muse . . . and not unless chunn pays me the big bucks and changes my icon to Goddess of TanTalk

BossFan ~ again, you are a gem. And of course totally correct in the real concern - which is not DHA topically - - but delivered in a spray that coats not only the skin but the mucose membranes.

There are indeed topical tests done on rats that show an issue with samonilla .... I would assume that age of the chemical and ambient temperatures could have alot to do with that...... spoilage is an easy thing for a compound that is best kept under refridgeration.... no client would stand still for that (pardon the pun)...

As far as my ongoing quest - - which is already over a year old . . . I have contacted chemists and toxicologists and reviewed the 'nomination paper work' for DHA.... Recently, an e-mail from Jack Pridham in the UK did a review for me on his Website "Chemo-Philia" here is a link - you will need to scroll down to the very bottom but he has tons of really interesting, easy to understand articles on the relationship of Chemicals and the Environment...Light of our Lives (12 August 2003)
Following recent bad news that tight neckties may damage your eyes and next weekend's barbeque is likely to poison your family and your neighbours, it is soothing to turn to something which is not all bad, namely, the sun ! In fact, without a sun there would be no life on earth as plants need its light to make everything they require, from carbon dioxide, water and minerals, and animals depend on plants, either indirectly or directly, for their nutrition. The sun and chemicals and many life processes and diseases are linked together by photochemical reactions. is how he starts the article ~ http://www1.rhul.ac.uk/Chemo-Philia/

he does touch on many issues about vitamin D and ends it with However, there are other ways, apart from sun lamps, to obtain a tan. Chemo-Philia does not claim to be an expert on artificial suntans but one of the earliest methods was probably treating the skin with toxicologically doubtful dyes. Similarly, it is claimed that one can dye one's self 'from the inside', so to speak, by consuming ß-carotene tablets, the orange-coloured, fat-soluble pigment (which can be toxic) found, for example, in carrots and many other vegetables; in theory this could be deposited in the skin fats. (There are stories of people who have 'gone orange' through eating too many carrots - rather a lot of carrots one would assume!). Products called 'self accelerators' are also available which are designed to speed up the body's natural formation of melanin. Tyrosine, the normal precursor of melanin, is one such compound but C-P has not found scientific evidence that this is effective (or safe). Finally, one of the most favoured ways of going brown is to use a, so-called, DHA-spray, another 'sunless-tanning' technique which is, chemically, very interesting and related to the reactions in cooking that impart colour and taste to some foods (see Maillard reaction). In the case of human beings, the process clearly imparts colour but there is no information about taste!

DHA, is an abbreviation for dihydroxyacetone (I) , a compound which is closely related to a vital, natural component of plant and animal cells, dihydroxyacetone phosphate (II)

HO-CH2-CO-CH2-OH .........(I)

HO-CH2-CO- CH2-O-PO32-....(II)

When DHA (I) is applied to the skin it is believed to combine quite rapidly, via the Maillard reaction, with amino (-NH2) groups of amino acids in the skin; these could presumably be free amino acids or those combined as proteins. Scribbles on the back of an envelope suggest that the Maillard products could then undergo a series of reactions which would produce melanin-like pigments and possibly many other compounds. However, there should be few worries about the chemical changes bearing in mind that: (1), we are continually exposed, internally, to Maillard food products and (2), that DHA has been used as an external cosmetic (with the approval of the US Food and Drugs Administration) for many years and there are no real indications that this compound is harmful. The regulations for its use as a 'sunless-tanning' agent include avoidance of contamination of the eyes, lips, mouth and nose - just to be on the safe side.

NB This review has been written in an office where, as a result of sunshine, the temperature has ranged from 33 to 37oC. Chemo-Philia fears that this may trigger an article on 'global warming' ! (12 August 2003)

I am such a 'biased coward' I supplied Jack with the entire Nomination Documents for DHA, both Versions of the FDA statment and countless links to discussions on my concerns.... Jack (like the muse) is not a lover of those that fear chemicals and suppressed health concerns ~ which is WHY I sought him out.....

I also sought the input from Toxicologists - - - and was told that there was SO MUCH MONEY involved - - that the chances of me getting the truth were slim. Another reviewed the issues - - and was surprised that this method of delivery (Spray with an enclosed booth) was able to come to market without the inhalation tests being done.

Eric Dann admitted to me - his company did not do them. That the theory of the 500 mile an hour sneeze was used to 'prove' it was unlikely that any particles would be able to make it past the mouth into the lungs..... Troy Cooper sent a letter to (?) claiming the tests were done.... we have not heard a peep since.... silence

Muse - I not only type... I read. and I never let one barrier stop me from getting to where I want to be.

*Approved as a drug for topical use, solely for the reason to impart color

*This FDA position paper is on the cosmetic use of DHA and a totally different governing body.

*Like UV beds are considered Medical Devices (and the intention is to shut down Salons and have that SERVICE provided to patients as medically necessary within a doctors office) The same is going to be focused on Application of this Drug..... chaching on the copays!!

Then - - aside from the Safety Issues of inhaling DHA Sprays.... we have the bloody basturds that advertise it [b]using the Fear Factor and using

But that's a bi**tch session for another day???

MJ

Quote:This is a debate without merit and being a reasonable person I know better than to tangle with a slobbering zealot.
Muse
A) the merit of this debate has yet to recognized..it will when the trogan horse is opened up. By then it will be too late for most of you to cover your asses. Sobeit.
B) Clarify something for me....did you insult S~????
if so... heheehehehehohmysidehehehheeh...nevermin d.


Rock on...Sassy sister. Wait let me get the popcorn.

Quote:works EXACTLY the same way -Engfant It is applied differently..hence the name MIST on tanning.
If you cannot see the difference...ohh nevermind this is tantalk I promised myself no more exercises in futility.

Sheila in Minnesota

Good morning Janna! Yes... that is the revised postion paper on the Cosmetic Use of DHA....** please note the changes to the FDA Position Statement barely a week after it's publication.....


Consequently, FDA advises asking the following questions when considering commercial facilities where DHA is applied by spraying or misting:
· Are consumers protected from exposure in the entire area of the eyes, in addition to the eyes themselves?
· Are consumers protected from exposure on the lips and all parts of the body covered by mucous membrane?
· Are consumers protected from internal exposure caused by inhaling or ingesting the product?
If the answer to any of these questions is "no," the consumer is not protected from the unsafe (and thus illegal) use of this color additive.

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Hypertext updated by dav 2003-JUN-20



Changed to :
If the answer to any of these questions is "no," the consumer is not protected from the unapproved use of this color additive. Consumers should request measures to protect their eyes and mucous membranes and prevent inhalation.revised July 1, 2003


Quite a revision ~ eh???

And how does the consumer KNOW to ask for these protective measures???

Sheila in Minnesota

MJ ~ check out the Muse's location.... I am not going to take a bat to that ~ it would be like beating up a granny in a wheelchair `

But if our pal only got to 'research' the sunless threads last nite - - - he/she would still be reading yet today.... tomorrow and the next day ~ ~ 'slobbering zealot’s and ranting is quite a job - - and even Evelyn Wood could not read and absorb ALL the information provided that quickly...

Whaddya think MJ ~ ~ do we have yet another 'skim reader' on our hands?

I think perhaps our new friend Muse should take the time to find a pulmunologist to concur with his/her stance that the Lung and Sinuses are indeed able to continue to function while coated with DHA and it's companion ingredients....


Also - I would like Muse to review the ad posted and SHOW ME the facts.... and since the actual inhalation of DHA chemicals is in QUESTION ~ tell me how they can claim it is safer than say...asbestos???

Once we get to review the TESTING and RESULTS of inhalation testing on DHA in Spray booth applications.... and it is proven to be safe ~ I will eat the poopooburger ~ till then Muse, stay the kc*f outta my way unless you can keep up.

Love,

Sheila

Muse

I have investigated and addressed safety concerns regarding airbrush tanning, thank ya and why would you assume I hadn't? It is pretty obvious that inhaling ANY particulate matter is not a good idea-do you really need a study for this? Any doctor or scientist will tell you to avoid breathing crap floating in the air!
I have a primary ventilation system that removes a majority of airborn particles immediately as well as a large HEPA air purifying system. I also wear and supply my clients with a N95 mask rated to remove 95% of all non-oil particles (same as a sars mask)

The only thing else I could do is convert to negative pressure like a biohazard lab and really, that's not necessary.

I do not spray the face or apply to mucus membranes. My solution is kept refrigerated to protect it from heat and also becuase it is perishable. The mist from the airbrush is already cool and no cooler this way.

Somehow I feel sure that this will not be good enough for you.

With so many dangerous, toxic unnecessary chemicals saturating our food, water, houshold products and cosmetics I find it strange that you have invested so much time and energy attacking one that has such a long history of safety.

How does it feel to be unable to function socially both in your real life as well as on the internet? Keep trying with the psychiatrists, they will eventually hit on a pill to help you stop bellowing and bullying your way through life like a mad cow. Oh, and if you are going to use arguments and debates on the internet as your major source of entertainment, do some studying up on how to do it well. If I took the time or had the energy to point out every fallicy, argumentum ad hominem and most definately ad nauseam I would be showing symptoms of the same personality disorder you display.


Muse

MJ

S~ yep a skim reader and a narrowminded "know it all type" too. I doubt she will heed your warning...so the popcorn is on standby...you know I love it when you school people like her. hehehehhh
Muse,
Really you need not concern yourself with S~'s time management. Most people can multi-task some do it better the others ..S~ would be one of them. Also Some people cannot see beyond the "untapped ching" in consumers pockets to be bothered or concerned about consumer safety. S~ would NOT be one of them. Neither am I...so I chose to wait for the results.

For the record. The best thing I can say about you at the moment is...You have a mythology based screen name and at least you do not have misting unit.
Quote:It is pretty obvious that inhaling ANY particulate matter is not a good idea-do you really need a study for this? Any doctor or scientist will tell you to avoid breathing crap floating in the air!

umm thanks for that riveting slam on salon owners who are concerned about the long and short term effects of inhaling DHA. Skim read again and find out what exactly you and your clients are inhaling..."little miss likestostatetheobvious" :eyeroll:
Or maybe you are not inhaling it at all..you wear a mask right??? If so.....why?????
If is sooo safe.:inyourfacegrin:
You now what??? Save it for someone who actually cares about your opinion...at the moment I do not think your opinion is based on anything other then making ching. Roll in the doe and make sure to save some to cover your ***. (when it left hanging out there by the MFG..) FYI the FDA is already back peddling baybay. Heed their "unspoken" warnings(as of yet) or STFU when the axe falls. Get it? Got it ? Good!!

PS...what Muse are you supposed to be?
Calliope, Clio, Erato, Euterpe, Melpomene, Polyhymnia, Terpsichore, Thalia,or Urania???

BTW S~, Ree, Linda, (to name a few) and even myself are more muse like then you. You are displaying the behavior of a Siren. Fly away little birdie.. Fly away!





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[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2003-08-21 02:38 ]

Muse

What a complete waste of bandwidth.

Do you have anything of substance to offer?
Is it satisfying for you to see your ignorance posted in the net for all to see?

I mean, did you tell me off good, put me in my place?
You remind me of a little yaptrap terrier running around under the big bulldog licking up it's drool.
What sort of response were you hoping to elicit from me? Please share. I find abnormal psychology facinating.

Do you handle conflict this way in real life or do you just use this forum to let your inner moron play?

Well, you really put me in my place and I can see you have me all figured out.
This is truly facinating. You ever hear of six degrees of seperation? We are not that far apart-try 1 degree of seperation. Guess who?

Muse

Sheila in Minnesota

Muse ~ let me get this straight.

You are NOT in the tanning industry.

You 'do' hair - and use DHA via spray gun.

You admit that you do not spray the face - that you and the client use SARS masks.

And then have the idiocy to claim that I have health concerns that are unfounded???

You think your Psych 101 verbiage is 'good enough' here???

You are too lazy to get the FACTS about what I have stated with regards to Airbrush and Spray booth methods - and yet you feel you have the right to call me the idiot ~ it is time for you to put down the Thesaurus and go back to the scissors!


I really don't care if you douche with DHA ~ in fact - it may make you more attractive

But this chemical was approved as a topical drug only - for cosmetic coloring of the skin... it has not been approved for Spray Applications. That is a fact and not something I farted out last nite.

You are not even A(muse)ing anymore - - I only care about my clients, and my friends in this industry..... Thank the gods you are neither.

Get your *** back to sunless.com - - They too prefer to keep their heads in the sand about the facts.

MJ

Well hun,
First I have never been refered to in an trite little analogy as a DOG..I am usually the Cat. But hey feel free to think what you like about me. Better yet.....
Why not tell me about yourself then if we are so similar??
How many UV units do you have??
Do you have a HP or a VHR unit??
Don't you just love the benefits of UV light??
Isn't it frustrating when clients come in to your salon with a boat load of bull Sh*t Anti-tanning Crap they pick up from the media and the "Sunlesstanning.com's" ???
Some people will do anything to make ching won't they!! argghhh :eyeroll;
OH and you never answer which Muse you are inspired by??


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[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2003-08-21 14:49 ]

Muse

You are correct-I'm not in the 'tanning industry' Never claimed to be.
There is no indication of any health problems associated with DHA application no matter what the delivery system. Don't think douching would be a good idea though and neither is inhalation.
Bellow some more for me. Your arguments is very weak so you might as well.

Muse