ITA BoD Candidates - Nominations close this Friday - Page 6 - tanTALK

Don Smith · 08-21-2002, 06:27 AM

Robbie:

Close, but no cigar.

The driving force of our economy are the "small business" entrepreneurs (like you) and I'm VERY surprised that you fail to see that.

I'm also surprised that you evidently fail to realize that this (the indoor tanning industry) is a service business. We are in the business of providing a service that helps our clients develop photoprotective, thermoprotective and immunoprotective facultative pigmentation (better known as a tan).

THAT "service" is our "product" and our reason for being.

[Note: I am aware that FDA/FTC requires us to say that we only provide a "cosmetic tan" but everyone, regulators included, know that only a spray tan is cosmetic.]

It is the small business person (a.k.a., the "entrepreneur") who by virtue of being willing to take risks associated with purchasing the necessary equipment and supplies (from vendors), entering into property leases, spending money for leasehold improvements, etc., and starting his/her business from "scratch who makes our "free choice" economy prosper.

And these entrepreneurs, Robbie, are called tanning salon owners.

The vendors (manufacturers and distributors, trades people, etc.,) may also be entrepreneurs but they are on the periphery of the industry, not IN the indoor tanning industry. [Note: For instance, some sunlamp manufacturers also make lamps that are sold to other industries. They are in the lamp business and a part of their production output just happens to go to the indoor tanning business. Another example is the airbrush manufacturers who, only recently, found that there is a market for their products in the indoor tanning industry.]

That, I believe, is why Jim takes the position he does (that salon owners should be allowed to vote for the representative of all segements) and why I believe that tanning salon owners must ultimately take control of their own destiny with their own trade organization and organize their own trade show.

Both of us are singing the same song but in a slightly different key.

We (tanning salon owners) are the dog of the indoor tanning industry and the vendors are the tail and it is time for the dog to wag the tail instead of the other way around!

In summary, since we are the "greater number", our "greatest good" must come first!

Don "Proud To Be An Entrepreneur" Smith

Tan Talker · 08-21-2002, 07:05 AM

Chris writes,

“Dale Parrott was willing to allow our meeting.. but out of "RESPECT".. I said we had already made other arrangements..”
Mr. Parrott expressed he same offer to me the day he had the Opryland Hotel cancel our meeting. The offer has not changed, we would have to have the meeting when there are no other meetings or ITA “events” going on, in essence, we could not hold the meeting except during free time when other competing interests such as manufacturers parties, dinners, and entertainment were going on effectively preventing the meeting while making the ITA look like a benevolent BIG BROTHER. My wife does not want to rock the boat, she would rather be rocked by the boat, and I do not.

Robbie says,

“I will puke if I read another post describing America as a democracy… our system is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. This means that the majority CANNOT vote away the minority.”
Robbie, I will hold the bucket for you. My point is that America is a “relatively” FREE country where one can pursue happiness and self-expression or as Mills might say, “a state of feeling which, though it may be indefinable, is nevertheless well known and easily recognized by us.” Some of us recognize the state of feeling unhappiness at the ITA’s view that a group of its members, the largest group, should not be allowed to assemble on their own time at their own expense, which is what they are going to do anyway, at the convenient location they are paying for. Once again, members of the ITA are not a competing organization by virtue of the fact of their membership and support, at least monetarily, of the ITA.

“Jim, why again should 3000 + salon owners have a say in who represents the lotion sector? Shouldn’t the lotion manufacturers have the right to democratically ELECT their representative?”

Robbie, No problem with that on my part. But why should a few lotion manufacturers have more say and a larger vote than 3000 + salon owners? “Bentham at first believed that enlightened and public-spirited statesmen would overcome conservative stupidity and institute progressive reforms to promote public happiness. When disillusionment set in, he developed greater sympathy for democratic reform and an extension of the franchise.” The ITA, in my opinion, represents the endarkenment of the indoor tanning society. Call it “conservative stupidity” if you will, I will.

Ezliving_Jim · 08-21-2002, 07:20 AM

Robbie: Your arguement is a Red Herring.

The organization of the BoD into sectors is a contrivance.

The ITA has taken one sector of the industry (The Vendors) representing 2.5% of the membership (86 members) and split it into 4 sectors.

They have done this so that the voting power of the BoD stays with the vendors and not with the other 97.5% of the membership comprised of salon owners.

What sort of government would do that, Robbie?

To look at your question from a different perspective: Why should the lotion sector representing 9 members have the same number of seats on the BoD as the salon owner sector representing 3340 members?
---

Why should there not be 10 vendor sectors? Shouldn't the private label lotion folks and the branded lotion folks each have their own sector?

Shouldn't the goggle folks have their own sector?

Why should the US and European bed manufacturers have to share 3 seats? Give them each their own sector.

Why should the "spray-on" folks have to share a sector with the UV bed folks? Give each of them their own sector too.

Why should all 3340 Salon owners be lumped into one sector? Why not 100? Why not separate sectors for salon owners in the U.S., Canada, Australia, England, France, Iraq, and Bora-Bora? Why not a sector for each of the 50 states in the U.S and one for each of the provinces in Canada?

Just kidding.....

But, seriously now, why not allow all members of an organization to vote for all open seats on the BoD of their organization?

_________________
Jim.
Entrepreneur Extraordinaire
[ This Message was edited by: Ezliving_Jim on 2002-08-21 07:49 ]

fungirlz · 08-21-2002, 07:47 AM

"My wife does not want to rock the boat, she would rather be rocked by the boat,"

Take me in your arms and rock me rock me... ..

or rather Jim.. could it be your wife wants EVERYONE to embrace this education..and is looking at the future and planning for these types of meetings..if everything goes well with this one maybe Don will agree to continue these for us........????????????
Maybe ITA will "ASK DON" next time to do a continuing series if these trainings????
Maybe this is why your wife is not wanting to make waves... Did you ever think, Maybe this is the best way.. ????? No... you think I've chickened out.. that's ok.. I know myself better than that..Believe me when I say.. If we don't know how to FIGHT the REAL enemy ..we will not survive in this industry..

RoCk oN........
xoxox
Wife

Tan Talker · 08-21-2002, 10:25 AM

Maybe ITA will "ASK DON" next time to do a continuing series if these trainings????
Chris, Do you really think that we salon owners could convince the ITA to pay Don's way to a convention and force others to listen to him. Everyone is required to be in attendance at every function aren't they? You are not allowed to meet privately with your peers or the thought police will exile you to the outland. Put it on the agenda and see if it will fly.

Jim,
I agree with your train of thought, keep it up.

Everyone, thank you for keeping this debate civil and excluding the ad hominem attacks we see in other threads. An argument is a search for the truth and we can disagree and still have respect for each other's opinions no matter how wrong they are.

BooBop · 08-21-2002, 11:00 AM

I see Christine's point here. Dale Parrot extended the offer after the fact that he (they) said, NO WAY. But he/they saw that we as salon owners want this badly enough to move to another location. This could in turn, make them see that we are a group of people that will go after what we want, and if they embrace this in the future, we will have Don and others like him speaking on subjects WE want to hear about.

Not the politician here, this is just my honest opinions.

Rock On Christine' and Don!

Rich C · 08-21-2002, 12:02 PM

Frankie,

What difference does it make if I'm there and whom am I supporting by being there?

By organizing a meeting during an existing one and taking attendees off site away from the meeting that they are there for in the first place is DISrespectful Frankie, plain and simple. If you want to be on the board you're going to have to do something besides sit there and voice what you believe to be the voice of salon owners. You have to have action and not just sit there. You also will have to have the interests of the ITA in line as well. Maybe you'll understand then, but there's really no point in arguing it with you anymore. It's how it is accept it and move on and quit tramping about it.

Oh, and I guess I directly benefit the ITA by being there by purchasing two passes.

Tan Talker · 08-21-2002, 12:07 PM

Rich says to Frankie,

By organizing a meeting during an existing one and taking attendees off site away from the meeting that they are there for in the first place is DISrespectful Frankie, plain and simple.

Rich, no one is forcing anyone away from any meetings they want to attend. And it is the ITA who is being disrespectful to its members. Plain and Simple!

fungirlz · 08-21-2002, 01:18 PM

Jim darling.. you said

"Chris, Do you really think that we salon owners could convince the ITA to pay Don's way to a convention and force others to listen to him. Everyone is required to be in attendance at every function aren't they? "

No everyone is not required to attend everything..
and YES I think the ITA will see the value in this education and embrace it..

Remember Jim I am the one who believes in happy forever after.. it hasn't failed me yet..
I will do what I can to make the ITA see the value in this on going education... on this subject and subjects such as this one in Nashville, Don will SPEAK and we will LEARN!!.. that is what matters here...
I know others will help us reach this goal..

Spank me and call me silly if you must.. but I believe this will be the start of something really wonderful..

C

_________________
Christine'
"That's right, it is time for the anti-tanning segment of the dermatology community and their comrades to "throw in the towel" and admit defeat!"Don Smith
Don't Miss Don In Action[ This Message was edited by: fungirlz on 2002-08-21 13:20 ]

solarmeter · 08-21-2002, 02:15 PM

Chris - you need a spanking tonight ^_^.

If nothing else, all this might certainly result in an Ask Don presentation being "invited" into all future trade show training agendas.

Ribner: How 'bout TanCun?

Rich C: How are other trade organizations set up? Any parallels to ITA.. or is it one-of-a-kind?

Do some industries have BOTH a mfgrs assoc and a users/customers assoc? If so, which one does trade shows and "training"? Where I came from (auto industry) there are plenty of mfgr and dealer associations, but no customer assoc - except classic car clubs. Then again, salon owners aren't just customers.. they are sort of like dealers. But distributors are more like the dealers. Hmmm.

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08-21-2002, 07:05 AM	#52 (permalink)
Tan Talker Join Date: Jan 18 2002 Location: Lake Mary, Florida Posts: 1,274 Rep Power: 23	Chris writes, “Dale Parrott was willing to allow our meeting.. but out of "RESPECT".. I said we had already made other arrangements..” Mr. Parrott expressed he same offer to me the day he had the Opryland Hotel cancel our meeting. The offer has not changed, we would have to have the meeting when there are no other meetings or ITA “events” going on, in essence, we could not hold the meeting except during free time when other competing interests such as manufacturers parties, dinners, and entertainment were going on effectively preventing the meeting while making the ITA look like a benevolent BIG BROTHER. My wife does not want to rock the boat, she would rather be rocked by the boat, and I do not. Robbie says, “I will puke if I read another post describing America as a democracy… our system is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. This means that the majority CANNOT vote away the minority.” Robbie, I will hold the bucket for you. My point is that America is a “relatively” FREE country where one can pursue happiness and self-expression or as Mills might say, “a state of feeling which, though it may be indefinable, is nevertheless well known and easily recognized by us.” Some of us recognize the state of feeling unhappiness at the ITA’s view that a group of its members, the largest group, should not be allowed to assemble on their own time at their own expense, which is what they are going to do anyway, at the convenient location they are paying for. Once again, members of the ITA are not a competing organization by virtue of the fact of their membership and support, at least monetarily, of the ITA. “Jim, why again should 3000 + salon owners have a say in who represents the lotion sector? Shouldn’t the lotion manufacturers have the right to democratically ELECT their representative?” Robbie, No problem with that on my part. But why should a few lotion manufacturers have more say and a larger vote than 3000 + salon owners? “Bentham at first believed that enlightened and public-spirited statesmen would overcome conservative stupidity and institute progressive reforms to promote public happiness. When disillusionment set in, he developed greater sympathy for democratic reform and an extension of the franchise.” The ITA, in my opinion, represents the endarkenment of the indoor tanning society. Call it “conservative stupidity” if you will, I will.

08-21-2002, 07:20 AM	#53 (permalink)
Ezliving_Jim I love Derf!! Join Date: Mar 12 2002 Location: Undisclosed Secure Location Posts: 2,636 Rep Power: 26	Robbie: Your arguement is a Red Herring. The organization of the BoD into sectors is a contrivance. The ITA has taken one sector of the industry (The Vendors) representing 2.5% of the membership (86 members) and split it into 4 sectors. They have done this so that the voting power of the BoD stays with the vendors and not with the other 97.5% of the membership comprised of salon owners. What sort of government would do that, Robbie? To look at your question from a different perspective: Why should the lotion sector representing 9 members have the same number of seats on the BoD as the salon owner sector representing 3340 members? --- Why should there not be 10 vendor sectors? Shouldn't the private label lotion folks and the branded lotion folks each have their own sector? Shouldn't the goggle folks have their own sector? Why should the US and European bed manufacturers have to share 3 seats? Give them each their own sector. Why should the "spray-on" folks have to share a sector with the UV bed folks? Give each of them their own sector too. Why should all 3340 Salon owners be lumped into one sector? Why not 100? Why not separate sectors for salon owners in the U.S., Canada, Australia, England, France, Iraq, and Bora-Bora? Why not a sector for each of the 50 states in the U.S and one for each of the provinces in Canada? Just kidding..... But, seriously now, why not allow all members of an organization to vote for all open seats on the BoD of their organization? _________________ Jim. Entrepreneur Extraordinaire [ This Message was edited by: Ezliving_Jim on 2002-08-21 07:49 ]

08-21-2002, 07:47 AM	#54 (permalink)
fungirlz Join Date: Jan 17 2002 Posts: 4,339 Rep Power: 24	"My wife does not want to rock the boat, she would rather be rocked by the boat," Take me in your arms and rock me rock me... .. or rather Jim.. could it be your wife wants EVERYONE to embrace this education..and is looking at the future and planning for these types of meetings..if everything goes well with this one maybe Don will agree to continue these for us........???????????? Maybe ITA will "ASK DON" next time to do a continuing series if these trainings???? Maybe this is why your wife is not wanting to make waves... Did you ever think, Maybe this is the best way.. ????? No... you think I've chickened out.. that's ok.. I know myself better than that..Believe me when I say.. If we don't know how to FIGHT the REAL enemy ..we will not survive in this industry.. RoCk oN........ xoxox Wife

08-21-2002, 10:25 AM	#55 (permalink)
Tan Talker Join Date: Jan 18 2002 Location: Lake Mary, Florida Posts: 1,274 Rep Power: 23	Maybe ITA will "ASK DON" next time to do a continuing series if these trainings???? Chris, Do you really think that we salon owners could convince the ITA to pay Don's way to a convention and force others to listen to him. Everyone is required to be in attendance at every function aren't they? You are not allowed to meet privately with your peers or the thought police will exile you to the outland. Put it on the agenda and see if it will fly. Jim, I agree with your train of thought, keep it up. Everyone, thank you for keeping this debate civil and excluding the ad hominem attacks we see in other threads. An argument is a search for the truth and we can disagree and still have respect for each other's opinions no matter how wrong they are.

08-21-2002, 11:00 AM	#56 (permalink)
BooBop I love Derf!! Join Date: Apr 5 2001 Age: 66 Posts: 7,766 Rep Power: 28	I see Christine's point here. Dale Parrot extended the offer after the fact that he (they) said, NO WAY. But he/they saw that we as salon owners want this badly enough to move to another location. This could in turn, make them see that we are a group of people that will go after what we want, and if they embrace this in the future, we will have Don and others like him speaking on subjects WE want to hear about. Not the politician here, this is just my honest opinions. Rock On Christine' and Don!

08-21-2002, 12:02 PM	#57 (permalink)
Rich C Join Date: Feb 7 2000 Posts: 154 Rep Power: 25	Frankie, What difference does it make if I'm there and whom am I supporting by being there? By organizing a meeting during an existing one and taking attendees off site away from the meeting that they are there for in the first place is DISrespectful Frankie, plain and simple. If you want to be on the board you're going to have to do something besides sit there and voice what you believe to be the voice of salon owners. You have to have action and not just sit there. You also will have to have the interests of the ITA in line as well. Maybe you'll understand then, but there's really no point in arguing it with you anymore. It's how it is accept it and move on and quit tramping about it. Oh, and I guess I directly benefit the ITA by being there by purchasing two passes.

08-21-2002, 12:07 PM	#58 (permalink)
Tan Talker Join Date: Jan 18 2002 Location: Lake Mary, Florida Posts: 1,274 Rep Power: 23	Rich says to Frankie, By organizing a meeting during an existing one and taking attendees off site away from the meeting that they are there for in the first place is DISrespectful Frankie, plain and simple. Rich, no one is forcing anyone away from any meetings they want to attend. And it is the ITA who is being disrespectful to its members. Plain and Simple!

08-21-2002, 01:18 PM	#59 (permalink)
fungirlz Join Date: Jan 17 2002 Posts: 4,339 Rep Power: 24	Jim darling.. you said "Chris, Do you really think that we salon owners could convince the ITA to pay Don's way to a convention and force others to listen to him. Everyone is required to be in attendance at every function aren't they? " No everyone is not required to attend everything.. and YES I think the ITA will see the value in this education and embrace it.. Remember Jim I am the one who believes in happy forever after.. it hasn't failed me yet.. I will do what I can to make the ITA see the value in this on going education... on this subject and subjects such as this one in Nashville, Don will SPEAK and we will LEARN!!.. that is what matters here... I know others will help us reach this goal.. Spank me and call me silly if you must.. but I believe this will be the start of something really wonderful.. C _________________ Christine' "That's right, it is time for the anti-tanning segment of the dermatology community and their comrades to "throw in the towel" and admit defeat!"Don Smith Don't Miss Don In Action[ This Message was edited by: fungirlz on 2002-08-21 13:20 ]

08-21-2002, 02:15 PM	#60 (permalink)
solarmeter Join Date: Nov 13 2001 Location: MI Posts: 861 Rep Power: 23	Chris - you need a spanking tonight ^_^. If nothing else, all this might certainly result in an Ask Don presentation being "invited" into all future trade show training agendas. Ribner: How 'bout TanCun? Rich C: How are other trade organizations set up? Any parallels to ITA.. or is it one-of-a-kind? Do some industries have BOTH a mfgrs assoc and a users/customers assoc? If so, which one does trade shows and "training"? Where I came from (auto industry) there are plenty of mfgr and dealer associations, but no customer assoc - except classic car clubs. Then again, salon owners aren't just customers.. they are sort of like dealers. But distributors are more like the dealers. Hmmm.

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