Small Business Under Attack!! - tanTALK

CHUNN · 08-03-2002, 12:15 AM

It's a sad day when the manufacturers fold under the pressure placed on them by the large distributors.

In yet another attempt by Large Distribution Companies ~ ETS has been pressured into creating problems for the BigDog Buyers Group.

Note that this has happened several times this year since the inception of salon
owner's group with various other manufacturers.

ETS, so far, is the only one to fold. Most manufacturers have put their trust and efforts into the small salon owner and the buyer's group efforts. They value the support of the smaller salons and understand the difficulties that this economy has caused for all small business owners.

It seems that the larger distributors who don't want to lose control can force the manufacturers into doing their dirty work.

Due to legal pressures begin placed on us salon owners in the buyer's group we are pulling all ETS manufactured products from the BigDog website.

I feel really bad that this decision had to be made since many of our member salon owners like and use the products manufactured by ETS. We feel we must seek to only support those Manufacturers that support ALL salon owners and do not discriminate against the small business owners that can only find economic safety in numbers--Numbers that the other large distribution companies do not want to lose from their bank books.

Rest assured that BigDog Buyers Group Members will still be able to order the fine products from: California Tan, John Abate' International, Designer Skin, Neuvo Bronze and Black Sun.

Here are the links to the letter sent to the buyer's group from ETS.

If you cannot view the letters click on them and a larger image will be loaded. Be patient if you have a dial-up internet connection.

Letter posted on TanTalk eMagazine

Page 1 of the letter on TanSource.com

Page 2 of the letter on TanSource.com

_________________

"BigDog member since April '02
[ This Message was edited by: chunn on 2002-08-03 09:51 ]

Sheila in Minnesota · 08-03-2002, 01:58 AM

Mike..... I had quite a hard time reading that letter... and not because of its sizing problems~~ but....

are they insane????

Paragraph 1- you are NOT selling products over the internet.....

you are providing an order form for your members to use to order from the Authorized Distributor - - the members using that form are accessing the prescribed discounts / rebates as per the general agreement that ETS has with all it's distrib. avenues.~ or am I wrong?????

Paragraph 2- I do not have the agreement that TSS has that would document the claim by ETS that it is expressly prohibited from selling to Buyers Groups. It would seem that this is discrimination against small business owners. It is NOT as if they are dealing with 16000 WalMart stores.....

And the BigDog set up actually curtails diversion of product - - not exascerbate it!

The fact is..... ETS would look very bad to the Salon Population of 25,000 to pursue an attack on a group of small business owners that only want to provide their clients with this product - and are following all the prescribed rules for buying the product..... can the author of this letter really understand the premise of Big Dog and think that legal threats are appropriate?

Paragraph 3- This paragraph documents further discrimination against the group you represent..... obviously - the burden of responsibility is being placed on TSS for fulfilling the orders of the buyers group....... again - - I would really love to see the Binding Agreement that TSS has with ETS..... but as the website is only a meeting place and a form to place the order - - - and the distrubutor is still following all the rules of sale it would seem that you (if you chose to continue to even carry this ETS product) could (a) make the www.BigDog.com and all it's members a True Distributor - - - get the 1800 # and whatever other documentation you need..... Then ANY other DISTRIB or only TSS could use your group as SubDistrib or (b) do what you did and kick ETS and any connection with them to the curb. I will bet once the membership finds out about the bully tactics being used by this Goliath against a very scrawny David..... they will support your decision.

Paragraph 4- I agree that as a company, ETS has indeed been diligent fighting Diversion of their product.

However, it would seem only fair that they be able to prove that this Buys Group is buying the ETS product for anything OTHER THAN RESALE WITHIN THEIR OWN SALON ENVIRONMENTS.

www.Bigdog.com is not an internet retailer - - - - you are taking orders from salon owners and those orders are processed and filled by a valid distributor - - the orders are being sent to Salon Addresses and to Salons that the BigDog Buyers Group has taken the time to personally verify as a TRUE indoor tanning salon.

I have not seen if you have added the non-diversion agreement yet to your membership area - - - but if you have, it would do well in this threatened litigation.

What absolute seeds !!!!

and who is this Tracy Ring cc'd at the bottom???

Can anyone understand the implications of what is being done to salon owners large and small by this tail tucking of ETS???

ETS is siding with the demands of the Big Boys.... and sending the 1 fingered salute to salons......

Wow ~

Frankie · 08-03-2002, 02:09 AM

I can see why this is very disturbing to Big Dog but I also can see what ETS was pushed into doing. They promised NO INTERNET SALES and they are taking action.

I`m sure all this was discussed with ETS before put on BigDog. Knowing what their policy was on this issue, it should have been.

This is a sad day for BigDog and a set back I`m sure. Although I have not ordered as of yet I do respect the ones who are involved and what they are trying to do.

Sheila in Minnesota · 08-03-2002, 02:21 AM

Internet retail sales and Using the Internet to order are 2 vastly different functions.....

American Royal has an online ordering form

I was told that TW Ent also has online ordering - - - I have not used or seen it so I am only repeating what I have been told.

I suppose the BigDog members could FAX their freeking orders to TSS..... but why go back to using monks and scribes when computer technology is here to stay???

the www.bigdog.com is a web site showing the membership what is available for sale TO THEM... and THEY are VERIFIED SALON OWNERS.... and THEY ARE BUYING FOR USE IN THEIR OWN SALONS..... they are paying the prescribed 'fixed rates' set by the MFGs.

The order processor is TSS ~ you know Sam, Frankie..... the same good ol boy that one of the Seasons accused of being a diverter ~ but never seemed to have the proof.....

Political Games - - - and Pressure to kick the new kid on the block square in the nutz.... and who loses????

The membership salons of the group - - - and in my opinion - - - ETS will lose too..... it is bad karma for any goliath to be such a schmuck to david.

it is sickening!

Sheila

Frankie · 08-03-2002, 02:26 AM

Shelia.... Tracie Ring is Bill Pipp`s right hand. She is the one who makes a lot of the decisions. She is the one I have been in contact with on my "Flea Market" saga. Everything Bill Pipp sends, he sends her a copy.

I will applaud ETS they not only speak they deliver. Although I do not agree with their decision on this matter I have to give them credit for what they have done in the past.
I think this decision was made to benefit others in the Industry and not salon owners. Sad but true.

Rumors have it one of the bigger Distributors might be putting pressure on MFG because of BigDog. Any comments on this?

Sheila in Minnesota · 08-03-2002, 02:35 AM

~ Frankie.... I agree that ETS has been stellar in their reaction to Diversion Issues.... I believe I stated as such in one of my tirades above....

I believe that it is NOT a rumor that 1 or even 2 of the Big Houses are the cause for this threat of legal action from ETS.....

Considering the NEED for all MFGs to sell as much goo as possible ~ I am shocked and surprized that Trevor or Bill would knowingly make this error..... and to attack a salon owner group that is already DEDICATED to STOP DIVERSION OF PRODUCT - - - well.... it seems a touch of insanity to this old broad!!!

This is not internet sales of a product..... and it is not a gateway to Diversion.......

Frankie - you own multiple locations.... Goo Gods and Distributors will take the time to speak with YOU.......

but there are thousands of salons that pay a large chunk of the ching to the MFGs (via other distribution networks) and they are being disrespected in my opinion........

And here is another wad of chew...... it is NOT just the majority of salon owners..... the day of the Small Local Distributor is going the way of the wolf as well.......

The Industry is changing.... and change is neccessary ~ ~ but there is a genocide taking place too.....

We need to stop the madness!!!

Frankie · 08-03-2002, 03:00 AM

Shelia here is where you and I are going to disagree but I would hope we can agree to disagree

I am a multi salon owner and yes I do have a lot of friends in this Industry and yes I do place big orders when I order but....there are others who place larger orders than I. These are the ones who have 10, 20 and over 100 locations. They are able to order direct from the MFG. Am I upset about this? NO I am not. I accept the discounts that I get. I have worked hard for the locations I have. Others have had the same opportunity.

I don`t think it is a matter of respect or disrespect of small salon owners. The bigger you are the more benefits you are able to receive. This is true with anything you do. Heck with my 5 locations I am just a small salon owner too.

We have others issues that are more important than who gets what type of discount and who is upset with who because of it. If we don`t get this NAC into focus we all are going to be sucking *****.

Just my opinion but what do I know?

Sheila in Minnesota · 08-03-2002, 06:46 AM

~ Frankie .... you are echoing my exact statments made months ago...... I have never begrudged larger businesses their sweetheart deals..... they built that relationship---- big bucks gains better $$$ savings.....

And the same should be for a group of small businesses that have the initiative to form a group makeing them 1 large entity able to gain access to the same type of deals.

As long as the MFGs are fixing discounts (which is NOT legal) and as long as there is 'unfair advantage' (meaning that companies like ETS threaten to sue a buyers group trying to help small business survive) there will always be angst in this industry!

If Big dog was a proven Diverter of Goo ~ I would shoot the f***** myself!

It is not.

It is an effort to obtain a better deal via the strength in numbers...... NUMBERS are a powerful thing..... for ETS to threaten the livlihood of approx 400 salon owners with this legal action - - - an action that is not founded on true concern for anything but placating the Big distribs......

Well - - it seems to me that ETS just LOST 400 + customers.... and thousands of potential customers - with this behavior. And you have hollered from on high about the diversion of lotion on the Flea Market circut..... I think you often discount any one else's concerns if they do not affect you directly ~ and that is possible just a side of human nature.......

But - - deflecting this issue with the CAUSE of a National Ad Campaign is not going to happen......

Why would 400+ salon owners give a rats *** about trying to gain support and acceptance of their trade from the outside world - - - when their own industry suppliers are smacking the sh** out of them?

There is many things I wanted to see BigDog become......

But I never thought I would see it become a victim to it's own.

Sheila

Sam James · 08-03-2002, 07:34 AM

I would like to thank everyone for thier support while we defend ourselves from this legal attack by ETS. I regret any inconvenience caused to the valued users of www.ourbigdog.com.

I have many other comments that will be made at the appropriate time.

Sam James, President
Tan Supply South, Inc.

tanfourall seasons · 08-03-2002, 09:22 AM

I don't buy Australian Gold for my Salon because it is so Wal-Mart, drugstore, etc. I want to carry products that people can't see at discount stores that tend to cheapen the value of the product (even though all indoor products aren't available in these stores people tend to think that all the lotions can be used in the beds and I get tired of hearing my own voice over and over again explaining why they can't use SPF 30 Ausstralian Gold Spray; posting notice after notice). I will order on a per bottle basis when someone requests a certain bottle (i.e. one customer swears by Thrust)but I try to sway them to something I already carry that works better. But personally, I think it's great that the company is reacting like this. Test other products for their quality not their name. There are plenty other products in their price range that are higher quality.
Good riddance.

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08-03-2002, 01:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	Mike..... I had quite a hard time reading that letter... and not because of its sizing problems~~ but.... are they insane???? Paragraph 1- you are NOT selling products over the internet..... you are providing an order form for your members to use to order from the Authorized Distributor - - the members using that form are accessing the prescribed discounts / rebates as per the general agreement that ETS has with all it's distrib. avenues.~ or am I wrong????? Paragraph 2- I do not have the agreement that TSS has that would document the claim by ETS that it is expressly prohibited from selling to Buyers Groups. It would seem that this is discrimination against small business owners. It is NOT as if they are dealing with 16000 WalMart stores..... And the BigDog set up actually curtails diversion of product - - not exascerbate it! The fact is..... ETS would look very bad to the Salon Population of 25,000 to pursue an attack on a group of small business owners that only want to provide their clients with this product - and are following all the prescribed rules for buying the product..... can the author of this letter really understand the premise of Big Dog and think that legal threats are appropriate? Paragraph 3- This paragraph documents further discrimination against the group you represent..... obviously - the burden of responsibility is being placed on TSS for fulfilling the orders of the buyers group....... again - - I would really love to see the Binding Agreement that TSS has with ETS..... but as the website is only a meeting place and a form to place the order - - - and the distrubutor is still following all the rules of sale it would seem that you (if you chose to continue to even carry this ETS product) could (a) make the www.BigDog.com and all it's members a True Distributor - - - get the 1800 # and whatever other documentation you need..... Then ANY other DISTRIB or only TSS could use your group as SubDistrib or (b) do what you did and kick ETS and any connection with them to the curb. I will bet once the membership finds out about the bully tactics being used by this Goliath against a very scrawny David..... they will support your decision. Paragraph 4- I agree that as a company, ETS has indeed been diligent fighting Diversion of their product. However, it would seem only fair that they be able to prove that this Buys Group is buying the ETS product for anything OTHER THAN RESALE WITHIN THEIR OWN SALON ENVIRONMENTS. www.Bigdog.com is not an internet retailer - - - - you are taking orders from salon owners and those orders are processed and filled by a valid distributor - - the orders are being sent to Salon Addresses and to Salons that the BigDog Buyers Group has taken the time to personally verify as a TRUE indoor tanning salon. I have not seen if you have added the non-diversion agreement yet to your membership area - - - but if you have, it would do well in this threatened litigation. What absolute seeds !!!! and who is this Tracy Ring cc'd at the bottom??? Can anyone understand the implications of what is being done to salon owners large and small by this tail tucking of ETS??? ETS is siding with the demands of the Big Boys.... and sending the 1 fingered salute to salons...... Wow ~

08-03-2002, 02:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Frankie Join Date: Jul 24 2001 Location: Between The Hedges Posts: 329 Rep Power: 23	I can see why this is very disturbing to Big Dog but I also can see what ETS was pushed into doing. They promised NO INTERNET SALES and they are taking action. I`m sure all this was discussed with ETS before put on BigDog. Knowing what their policy was on this issue, it should have been. This is a sad day for BigDog and a set back I`m sure. Although I have not ordered as of yet I do respect the ones who are involved and what they are trying to do.

08-03-2002, 02:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	Internet retail sales and Using the Internet to order are 2 vastly different functions..... American Royal has an online ordering form I was told that TW Ent also has online ordering - - - I have not used or seen it so I am only repeating what I have been told. I suppose the BigDog members could FAX their freeking orders to TSS..... but why go back to using monks and scribes when computer technology is here to stay??? the www.bigdog.com is a web site showing the membership what is available for sale TO THEM... and THEY are VERIFIED SALON OWNERS.... and THEY ARE BUYING FOR USE IN THEIR OWN SALONS..... they are paying the prescribed 'fixed rates' set by the MFGs. The order processor is TSS ~ you know Sam, Frankie..... the same good ol boy that one of the Seasons accused of being a diverter ~ but never seemed to have the proof..... Political Games - - - and Pressure to kick the new kid on the block square in the nutz.... and who loses???? The membership salons of the group - - - and in my opinion - - - ETS will lose too..... it is bad karma for any goliath to be such a schmuck to david. it is sickening! Sheila

08-03-2002, 02:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
Frankie Join Date: Jul 24 2001 Location: Between The Hedges Posts: 329 Rep Power: 23	Shelia.... Tracie Ring is Bill Pipp`s right hand. She is the one who makes a lot of the decisions. She is the one I have been in contact with on my "Flea Market" saga. Everything Bill Pipp sends, he sends her a copy. I will applaud ETS they not only speak they deliver. Although I do not agree with their decision on this matter I have to give them credit for what they have done in the past. I think this decision was made to benefit others in the Industry and not salon owners. Sad but true. Rumors have it one of the bigger Distributors might be putting pressure on MFG because of BigDog. Any comments on this?

08-03-2002, 02:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	~ Frankie.... I agree that ETS has been stellar in their reaction to Diversion Issues.... I believe I stated as such in one of my tirades above.... I believe that it is NOT a rumor that 1 or even 2 of the Big Houses are the cause for this threat of legal action from ETS..... Considering the NEED for all MFGs to sell as much goo as possible ~ I am shocked and surprized that Trevor or Bill would knowingly make this error..... and to attack a salon owner group that is already DEDICATED to STOP DIVERSION OF PRODUCT - - - well.... it seems a touch of insanity to this old broad!!! This is not internet sales of a product..... and it is not a gateway to Diversion....... Frankie - you own multiple locations.... Goo Gods and Distributors will take the time to speak with YOU....... but there are thousands of salons that pay a large chunk of the ching to the MFGs (via other distribution networks) and they are being disrespected in my opinion........ And here is another wad of chew...... it is NOT just the majority of salon owners..... the day of the Small Local Distributor is going the way of the wolf as well....... The Industry is changing.... and change is neccessary ~ ~ but there is a genocide taking place too..... We need to stop the madness!!!

08-03-2002, 03:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
Frankie Join Date: Jul 24 2001 Location: Between The Hedges Posts: 329 Rep Power: 23	Shelia here is where you and I are going to disagree but I would hope we can agree to disagree I am a multi salon owner and yes I do have a lot of friends in this Industry and yes I do place big orders when I order but....there are others who place larger orders than I. These are the ones who have 10, 20 and over 100 locations. They are able to order direct from the MFG. Am I upset about this? NO I am not. I accept the discounts that I get. I have worked hard for the locations I have. Others have had the same opportunity. I don`t think it is a matter of respect or disrespect of small salon owners. The bigger you are the more benefits you are able to receive. This is true with anything you do. Heck with my 5 locations I am just a small salon owner too. We have others issues that are more important than who gets what type of discount and who is upset with who because of it. If we don`t get this NAC into focus we all are going to be sucking *****. Just my opinion but what do I know?

08-03-2002, 06:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota Join Date: Jan 3 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,686 Rep Power: 23	~ Frankie .... you are echoing my exact statments made months ago...... I have never begrudged larger businesses their sweetheart deals..... they built that relationship---- big bucks gains better $$$ savings..... And the same should be for a group of small businesses that have the initiative to form a group makeing them 1 large entity able to gain access to the same type of deals. As long as the MFGs are fixing discounts (which is NOT legal) and as long as there is 'unfair advantage' (meaning that companies like ETS threaten to sue a buyers group trying to help small business survive) there will always be angst in this industry! If Big dog was a proven Diverter of Goo ~ I would shoot the f*** myself! It is not. It is an effort to obtain a better deal via the strength in numbers...... NUMBERS are a powerful thing..... for ETS to threaten the livlihood of approx 400 salon owners with this legal action - - - an action that is not founded on true concern for anything but placating the Big distribs...... Well - - it seems to me that ETS just LOST 400 + customers.... and thousands of potential customers - with this behavior. And you have hollered from on high about the diversion of lotion on the Flea Market circut..... I think you often discount any one else's concerns if they do not affect you directly ~ and that is possible just a side of human nature....... But - - deflecting this issue with the CAUSE of a National Ad Campaign is not going to happen...... Why would 400+ salon owners give a rats * about trying to gain support and acceptance of their trade from the outside world - - - when their own industry suppliers are smacking the sh** out of them? There is many things I wanted to see BigDog become...... But I never thought I would see it become a victim to it's own. Sheila

08-03-2002, 07:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sam James Join Date: Nov 2 2000 Location: GA & TN Posts: 196 Rep Power: 0	I would like to thank everyone for thier support while we defend ourselves from this legal attack by ETS. I regret any inconvenience caused to the valued users of www.ourbigdog.com. I have many other comments that will be made at the appropriate time. Sam James, President Tan Supply South, Inc.

08-03-2002, 09:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
tanfourall seasons Waiting Confirmation Join Date: Aug 17 2001 Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	I don't buy Australian Gold for my Salon because it is so Wal-Mart, drugstore, etc. I want to carry products that people can't see at discount stores that tend to cheapen the value of the product (even though all indoor products aren't available in these stores people tend to think that all the lotions can be used in the beds and I get tired of hearing my own voice over and over again explaining why they can't use SPF 30 Ausstralian Gold Spray; posting notice after notice). I will order on a per bottle basis when someone requests a certain bottle (i.e. one customer swears by Thrust)but I try to sway them to something I already carry that works better. But personally, I think it's great that the company is reacting like this. Test other products for their quality not their name. There are plenty other products in their price range that are higher quality. Good riddance.

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