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Old 08-06-2002, 04:11 PM   #41 (permalink)
 
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Hehehehehe

Ok ~ so Jim needs another Brew~ski!!!!

Sheila needs more Zoloft and a new pair of Rose colored Glasses.....

Christine needs a Mr. Microphone and a tape recorder (and a Lois Lane outfit )

MJ needs whip (a new one) to keep us all in line.....

And Bill Pipp and Trevor Gray need to interact with the kiddies in a less formal way than......


Legal Notices . . .


It may be time for ETS to Cease and Desist ignoring this very important issue....


Yes???
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Old 08-06-2002, 04:28 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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Your Dadgum Right Shelia~
and while your at it order me a Corona no glass,with a lime.

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Old 08-06-2002, 10:49 PM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Let me splain what I have been told......

Take what you can believe into your hearts and disregard the rest ~ ohtay?

* Bill Pipp did give me a call (approx.2 hours)

*Re: ETS bowing to Pressure from 4 Seasons or BigDog Buyers group ~ Bill emphatically states that no one tells ETS how to do business, with whom to do business with or whom not to do business with ... the decision to insist on the removal of ETS products from the BigDog forum was solely decided by ETS.

*The Legal Letter to Mike Chunn and Sam James of TSS is not a clerical error.

*The letter is the result of 3 months of research by the ETS Law firm and numerous phone calls between TSS and ETS on just how the BigDog group accesses the ETS brand of products.

ETS does indeed have a contractual stipulation that no buyers groups are to be sold to due to the belief that ETS has that~~
(1) The environment is NOT via a Professional Salon Environment

(2) The education on the products is NOT available to the members that buy the product via the internet ordering forms - that while TSS is a distributor of ETS and required to follow the seminar and training of the ETS salons - BigDog.com is considered a type of unauthorized sub-distributor - - against the TSS original contract **this is fuzzy - - I may not have related this in it's true essence**

(3) The advice on programs - spiffs - and co~op advertising is not getting discussed with the BigDog members buying the ETS Brand Products

(4) That ETS has not received the required paperwork on the sales made to BigDog members that would insure they receive the rebates/spiffs for their past purchases

(5) ETS has every right as a business to CHOOSE the avenues of sale of their product. They feel that the BigDog Group has not been properly managed up til this point, that too many discrepancies have been noted by their legal team to warrant the comfort level ETS requires to continue the association with BigDog Buyers group.

(6) ETS states that approximately $800,000 of spiff and co-op advertising money has been sent to 'small business' salon owners to date and that most of the paper work is not sent in until October.... they feel that no other company has supported the Salon Owners in rebates and compensation (Millions$$) like ETS has.

(7) Florida sales of ETS products -YES, for 18 years.... selling spf and the aussie accelerator in all facets of retail operations.... building brand recognition in much the same way the Cal Tan products in resorts will eventually bring the salon owners a new client in search of the product found on vacation.

(8) ETS does not tell distributors at what price they must sell the products to salons. They provide a guideline for them to follow...........

(9) So While the BigDog Buyers group is not a true 'suspect' of impending Diversion of the ETS brand products.... the contract between TSS and ETS is being violated in their (ETS) eyes and the level of commitment to the brand that is expected from any distributor is being questioned at this time...

Should the BigDog Buyers Group approach ETS at a later time with the current issues resolved... they would be happy to consider an association.

(10) As the ETS brand of products is not being offered on the BigDog order site - - Sam James of TSS only needs to comply with the documentation requested on the products sold thus far - - and he is able to remain a Distributor of the ETS brands of products in his capacity of TSS supplies to other clients - - just not BigDog Group buyers or other internet based businesses.


**** the above post is based upon a conversation - questions and answers - between Bill Pipp of ETS and myself....

I do not carry ETS brand products

I am a lover of the IDEAL of what a buyers group can do for small salon owners

I am trying to remain impartial in giving you the jist of this conversation

There are still some questions -- but those are not earth shattering, and unless proof positive is obtained of anyone else's involvement (4 seasons or any other power within the industry) cannot be hung on this issue.....

I choose how I do business in my salon

I actually almost jettisoned a b**tch client while on the phone with Bill ~ I value my reputation in the community and I protect it even against the paying client at times.

I beleive that Mike Chunn and Sam James have the best interests of their membership at heart.

I believe that ETS has the right to decide when their best interests are not being met by the association.

Bill Pipp is as plain a speaker as you will ever meet - - - he will not participate on online for the same reason many other MFGs do not like to - - - it takes a ton of time and committment to participate and they have the majority of their clients in other venues - not online.

So ~ unless there is gasoline and matches that I am missing....... let me say that I do hope that anyone that wishes to carry the Aussie and SB products continues to do so via where ever they can get them......

For those that want to join the membership of the Big Dog group and support each other to acheive better deals on ----------whatever ~ Best to both worlds.

Sheila


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Old 08-07-2002, 09:12 AM   #44 (permalink)
 
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Sheila:

Thanks for the report on your phone conversation with Bill Pipp. Here, IMHO, are the key points to keep in mind because almost everything you said he said was the kind of "after-the-fact" CYA ((cover your a**) "spin" that you would expect from a company who has been caught screwing up.

Statement #1: (5) ETS has every right as a business to CHOOSE the avenues of sale of their product.

Response #1: An absolutely true statement BUT tanning salon owners ALSO have the "right" to CHOOSE what products we will stock and sell. OUR choice is the one that counts because we are the ones who decides what products will be presented and sold to our clients! Thus, ETS can take this position but they must be prepared to accept the consequences.

Statement #2: (9) So While the BigDog Buyers group is not a true 'suspect' of impending Diversion of the ETS brand products.... the contract between TSS and ETS is being violated in their (ETS) eyes and the level of commitment to the brand that is expected from any distributor is being questioned at this time...

Response #2: In other words, there was no "real" diversion issue, they simply looked for and found a "legal loophole" in their distributor agreement that they could use to do what they wanted to do.

You will note, Sheila, that neither Bill Pipp nor Trevor Gray called me to discuss the "Ask Don's Army e-Message Campaign" and to "explain" their position. Why not? Because Ask Don's left ear is a finely tuned B.S. detector.

Nothing has changed.

It matters not why ETS took this position.

In all probability it (the Big Dog decision) was in response to "pressure" by distributors who felt "threatened" that a group of tanning salon owners had the audacity to band together in order to try and "level the playing field" between them and large salons regarding the price they pay for products (isn't THAT the American way?).

It may also have been that ETS just made another PR mistake in a sincere attempt to look out for their own best interests (as they see them!).

But it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that they have taken a position AGAINST the best interests of small tanning salon owners.

Trevor Gray and Bill Pipp must realize that they can't stop the emergence of buying consortiums (buying groups) in the indoor tanning industry (they are a fact of life in all emerging industries) but they CAN cause the salons making up the consortium/group from wanting to buy, stock and sell their products. Do they REALLY want to encourage the consortium/group from buying, stocking and selling their products? Not if they are as smart as I thought they are!

They must also "realize" that this situation coupled with the recent Helio "encryption" debacle IS NOT the kind of "publicity" they want (and need) given the fact that Nashville is only three months down the road.

I have a lot of respect for Trevor Gray and, hopefully, these recent PR "screwups" will cause him to take a hard look at those individuals in his organization who are making these "testosterone driven" decisions.

One final thought. It should be obvious to EVERYONE that ETS could have come "on-line" and stated their position for everyone to read. WHEN will the OBN understand that the industry website WILL NOT go away and learn to use them to their benefit?

Don "Who ALWAYS Takes The Side Of Salon Owners" Smith
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:01 AM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
On 2002-08-06 22:49, Sheila in Minnesota wrote:
Let me splain what I have been told......

Take what you can believe into your hearts and disregard the rest ~ ohtay?

* Bill Pipp did give me a call (approx.2 hours)

*Re: ETS bowing to Pressure from 4 Seasons or BigDog Buyers group ~ Bill emphatically states that no one tells ETS how to do business, with whom to do business with or whom not to do business with ... the decision to insist on the removal of ETS products from the BigDog forum was solely decided by ETS.


*The Legal Letter to Mike Chunn and Sam James of TSS is not a clerical error.



Why would anyone think this to be a clerical error?

Quote:

*The letter is the result of 3 months of research by the ETS Law firm and numerous phone calls between TSS and ETS on just how the BigDog group accesses the ETS brand of products.



If this statement is TRUE then you would assume that I or TSS would have received a call from ETS regarding this matter.

Neither I or Sammy received ANY calls from ETS about BigDog being a problem.

The only call received ( they called TSS ) was from ETS asking why ETS products WERE NOT on BigDog.

After this call from ETS the buyer's group members were polled to see if they wanted to have ETS products on BigDog.

Link to this topic in the BigDog forum

No other communication was made after that. So who were they talking to?????


Quote:
ETS does indeed have a contractual stipulation that no buyers groups are to be sold to due to the belief that ETS has that~~
[b](1) The environment is NOT via a Professional Salon Environment

(2) The education on the products is NOT available to the members that buy the product via the internet ordering forms - that while TSS is a distributor of ETS and required to follow the seminar and training of the ETS salons - BigDog.com is considered a type of unauthorized sub-distributor - - against the TSS original contract **this is fuzzy - - I may not have related this in it's true essence**



I believe the post on suntanning.com says it all. The statement made above would mean they do not follow their OWN policies.

Suntanning.com shows the ETS website were they offer their lotion at WHOLESALE to the PUBLIC.


Suntanning.com post

If you cannot log into suntanning.com then here is the image from TanSource showing ETS's wholesale catalogue that is send to the tanning public. According to Lonn Dugan from suntanning.com this represents lotions being discounted 40% OFF. I'm assuming that OFF normal retail price. If TRUE then your tanning customers can buy lotion DIRECT from ETS at just a few points above what you are paying!

Image on TanSource

Home Tanning Beds


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Old 08-07-2002, 10:20 AM   #46 (permalink)
 
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Mike,

The story coming from Ice Miller thru my law firm is not the same story posted by Shelia~. I can't respond to hearsay as it is a bit too easy to deny.

Sam, waiting for them to pick a story and stick with it, James
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:35 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Sam,
This is why, ETS/Bill Pipp/Treavor Gray should come on the boards and tell their own story. But of course they will not.
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:46 AM   #48 (permalink)
 
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Michael:

The ETS "message" is "do as I say, not as I do" as everyone can CLEARLY see.

Selling their lotion DIRECTLY to owners of their home tanning beds appears to be a much more egregious violation OF THEIR OWN distribution policy than anything that any buyers consortium (like Big Dog) is doing.

And it hurts the people (salon owners) ETS says they are trying to protect in TWO WAYS. (1) The sale of the home tanning bed hurts the salon owner patronized by the person who bought the home tanning bed, and, (2) The sale of lotion directly to the client (just like the on-line lotion companies do!) means that when the home tanning bed owner comes in to a commercial salon to use an upgrade bed (and they all do!), they will bring the lotion they bought directly with them.

Is someone speaking with a forked-tongue here?

Does ETS really think that we are all too stupid to see the duplicity here?

What a PR disaster!

Friendly Message To Trevor Gray: The first rule to follow when you find yourself in a hole is to quit digging!

Don "Who Sees Through the B.S." Smith
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Old 08-07-2002, 12:33 PM   #49 (permalink)
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[ This Message was edited by: MJ on 2002-09-03 13:12 ]
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Old 08-07-2002, 12:45 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:And it hurts the people (salon owners) ETS says they are trying to protect in TWO WAYS. (1) The sale of the home tanning bed hurts the salon owner patronized by the person who bought the home tanning bed, and, (2) The sale of lotion directly to the client (just like the on-line lotion companies do!) means that when the home tanning bed owner comes in to a commercial salon to use an upgrade bed (and they all do!), they will bring the lotion they bought directly with them

Not to mention all the friends they have that will tan in their home bed vs. going to a salon. One home unit will take out 4-5 tanners of our salons!
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