HOT STUFF

From everything that I have heard about the Mastersun, it is a very good HP bed.
I would go just the opposite as UV MAN. The 15 minutes is a disadvantage not an
advantage. When I have my 12 minute bed booked up from 2 to 8:30 in the evening, how many more sessions am I going to get in compared to the 15 minute bed. At $30 a
session, how much more would I make with the 12 minute session. Now being booked
up doesn't happen every day but during the season it happens a lot. If a longer session was an advantage, we would be getting rid of our 12 and 15 minute regular beds and going back to 20 minute beds.

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UV MAN

Why not just go to a 10 minute session then. If turning bodies is all you worried about then that would be even better.

All I am saying is that HP tanning is a different beast and tan. More UVA means more browning. Would you rather have you skin exposed to a total output of 120 for a 12 minute session or a 15 minute session? Which would brown you out better. TE time means much less with a HP unit. I would rather have a TE time of 15 minutes with a 15 minute session and 120 total output then a TE time of 12 minutes with a 12 minute session with 120 total output.

Which would give you a better TAN?

Now if we were talking a tube bed I would feel a little different. Give me a shorter session time. With that said I still feel that any unit under 10 minutes underperformes and MOST units under 11 minutes under perform. The TE time is more important on a tube unit as the output and browning is lower. This industry has gotten too caught up on tan times.

****, the old Ultrabronze 30 minute mattress units gave one of the best tan I ever had.

The bottom line is you will make big money with any of these three units & several others not mentioned. The key is knowing how to SELL HP at $35 a session and making it you most heavily used unit. I just prefer the MasterSun for overall Comfort, Tanability and Support. Keep in mind I do not own one. Its nice getting into a HP unit and not sweating your *** off.

HOT STUFF

I am trying to understand your meaning of total output of 120. If you mean that you are getting 120 units of tanning in 12 or 15 minutes then the tan would be the same with one taking longer than the other. Here again if the tan is the same then I still would take the
12 min bed because of as you put it, turning bodies. The more people I can tan in a unit in a given day, the more money I can make.

If you mean that both units are putting out 120 on a meter, then the 15 minute bed
would be better. The only problem with that is that neither the Magic or the Mastersun
put out 120 on the meter. The Magic puts out 130 and the best I have seen for the Mastersun is 100-110 and the worst was in the 80's. There is some dispute on the 80's but the person that metered the bed knows his stuff. For me the advantage goes to the Magic and we
haven't even talked about lamp life, customer adjustability, and being able to fine
tune each lamp.

Now let me say this about the Mastersun, if it had the adjustability and the lamp life,
it would be a tougher choice for me between the 2.

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UV MAN

Sorry, Yes I meant 5.0 meter readings. No way is the Master Sun meters 80 on a 5.0 meter. That was flat out BS by whoever said it. More in the 110-120 range. The other bed does put out 130 or even higher. Like I said most of the salons I know that have it bring it down to 110 on a 5.0 meter because it is too hot. So what good is it. Like driving a funny car on city streets.

Again, if both units metered in the 120 range on a 5.0 meter I would take the 15 minute cooler session every day of the week. A much better tan with comfort to boot. Just imagine the customer response when they get into your new HP unit and it is COOLER then your VHR beds. Customer satisfaction goes through the roof. This has been our biggest customer complaints over the years from HP customers. It is just too **** hot. You literally lose HP customers because of this.

The lamp life is better in some units then the Master Sun and this cannot be disputed. You also need to look at cooling. Imagine adding a HP unit and not having to add any AC. Not only do you save on electicity because the bed uses a lower amp draw BUT you also save tons of money on AC expense. Just one of our 10 unit salons in busy season will have a $5K per month electric bill. Much of this bill comes from running and cooling our Hp beds.

Just many, many things to consider these days when it come to purchasing HP. I believe this purchase needs to be about the quality of the tan and comfort. Turning customers over is for the lower level units.

Again you make a good point about these lamps. Hmmm, does anybody know if the taps can be adjusted up by the owner on the Master Sun as the lamps age. I was almost positive that you could BUT I could be dead wrong.

Then again, the money saved on electrical from bed draw and AC more then makes up for the price of the lamps.

I do wish the Master Sun had less plastic which I believe is its biggest downfall.

Again, it comes down to you prefrence when purchasing as most of the units out there will perform. When it comes to performance and comfort the MS wins out.

Tan in all of them before you buy. Ask questions about amp draw and cooling. Do not buy HP based on price. Do it on what you think is the best unit for your needs.

HOT STUFF

Uv, I have 2 Magics and I have never had to turn them down to 110. I have never had a customer tell me it was too hot. The original Magics without the Mug 6 glass may have had this problem but not the ones with Mug 6. Just so you understand about the heat
in the Magic, my son in law turns the fans off in the bed. If it was that hot, I don't think he could do that. The bed is kept at 130 and it has 920 hours on the lamps. Try that with any other bed, Hp or other wise.

The Mastersun does not meter 120, every time someone has shown a meter reading for the Mastersun, it has been 100-110 except the
reading in the 80's .

That is the top reading, remember for every hour it runs, those readings go down. So what is the reading at 200, 400, 600 hours.
Parrot head said the lamps in his Mastersun were shot at 400
hours. One of the Mastersun dealers said the lamps would last 700 hours, so lets split the difference, 550. At 550, the lamps
should have lost around 30%, which at the high of 110 would
put the readings in the low 80's. If it started out at 100, it would
put it around 70. What is my Magic going to be 550? 130.
What is it going to be at 750? 130. What is it going to be at 1000? 130. So you see, even if they start off close to each other, they don't end up close to each other. When the Mastersun is putting out
the low 80's and the Magic is at 130, which one do you think tans better?

Now I know that tomorrow says that the Magic loses uvb every
time it is boosted and that is true, the Mastersun loses uvb
also for every hour it runs.













I know what my Magic will be, 130.

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TomorrowSun

Lamp life is just a sales pitch that everyone buys into.

Yes, ALL lamps (HP and LP) degrade every hour of use. What happens when you increase the volts to a HP lamp, it looses even more UVB than it would normally. So, yes, you can still achieve 130 on a 5.0, but that means squat if your not using the 6.0 and 7.0 at the same time throughout the 1000 hours.

Also, the lamp life (saving you money) sales pitch means very little when it cost less to run the mastersun and there are fewer lamps to replace each time. So the mastersun salon has to change out their lamps at 550 hours and the magic salon changes at 1000 hours. The mastersun salon used LESS electricity, less AC and less lamps cost thant the Magic salon. SO in the end, I ask you.....does longer lamp life really save you money or does it cost you customer satisfaction???

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HOT STUFF

So what you are saying Tomorrow is that a customer would be more satisfied
with a Mastersun at 500 hours putting out in the 70's than a Magic at 1000
hours putting out 130. Is that what you are saying? Just so everyone knows, what does it cost for a lamp change in the Mastersun?

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UV MAN

Good discussion here I must say.

Still, does anybody know the answer about the taps being able to be adjusted on the MS which would increase output as the lamps drop off. I thought this could be done.

Still don't think the output would drop down to the 70's at 500Hrs. My experience has been that a tube lamp will drop off more quickly then a HP lamp. Did Parrot say his unit only metered 70 at 500Hrs. This seems very LOW.

The one BIG thing you are leaving out of the whole equation is that the MS has a 3 minute longer tan time which is approx 20%. So if you take tan time into account with brand new lamps the MS would meter at 110 and the other unit at 104 on a 5.0 meter. Just something to consider. Per the tan time the MS would be stronger out of the gate in tanning power.

Again, at a certain point probably 100Hrs they will be about even. Then the MS will start to drop off faster then the other unit. Then the other unit would be stronger the next 300Hrs. Now we are at 500Hrs. The MS has saved us money on less lamps, AC and amp draw. The MS gets a new set of lamps and the other unit is running at the same output BUT a much higher TE time which is big. The MS is back at original output and TE times.

Just something to consider here. There is no dispute the MS lamps will not last as long. This is a given. About 500 hrs does seem right.

Let me say this. A unit WILL tan completely different with new lamps versus old lamps even if the output is constant by adjusability being taps or electronic. The change in TE time is night and day. For instance, a bed with new lamps could meter 100 and have a TE time of 15 minutes. Then at 500Hrs the taps could raised and the output could still be about 100 but the TE time could now be in the 18-19 minute range. It tans like a completely different unit and the customers start complaining. There is much more to the equation then just total output.

This one I know from experience. Customers can tell the difference. Dont think any HP unit can really get 1000Hrs and keep all the customers happy.

Just my 2 cents.


ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT THE TAPS ON THE MS?????????????????

HOT STUFF

Parrot head did not say it metered in the 70's at 500 hours. Parrot head said the lamps
were shot at 400 hours. He also said that sporterredo would not warranty the bed
above 230 volts so go ahead and raise the voltage and see what sporterredo tells
you when it breaks down. Usually salons change out lamps when they have decreased
25-30%. That is where the 70's comes from.

We can discuss this forever but I can tell you for a fact that you can get 1000 hours
and keep the customers happy.
You are more than welcome to try out the my Magic.
One more thing, don't forget about the new Magic 636 Plus
that has the new lamps and reflectors that puts out 20% more
than the regular Magic 636.

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Barefoot Beach

Thanks for the great HP discussion! Sorry I can't add to the debate but I do have some questions. I have a 13 bed salon in Atlanta but have not taken the leap to HP. It's time. What is a fair price for each of the beds new? Used? Who are the manufacturers you are debating in this thread? What are you charging for walk-in pricing? I will be at the ITA show in Nashville this October and am anxious to look at the HP units. Sounds like the Magic 636 and the Mastersun are the ones to beat. Will they fit in a 7'x7' room? Thanks in advance for everyone's advice!