JeffinKC

Ok as I said I tanned yesterday in the Tanses 55 lamp standup. I allready have a Starhip the 60 lamp and the 50 lamp. The Tanses had 168 hours on the unit and the lamps they charge $1.25 per minute walk in price. The cooling system is better than my Sundazzler but not as good as either Starship. It seemed to be cooler toward the top of the unit than at the floor. It's 10 minutes and by 5 it was pretty hot. My biggest problem with it was the lamps are in a circle diameter of 31 inches so the lamps are farther away from you. If they were closer I think it would be better. Overall the tan was ok I think the Starship outperforms it a little. Now I charge $1.50 per minute walk in on the Starship but it costs almost twice as much. My verdict is if you want flashy buy the Starship. If your looking for something that is close in performance but better in price I'd say go Tanses. Also If you go with Tanses I would put in Heraeus lamps to give it the extra boost. With that it would be unbelievable I think. Just my opinion without any meter readings to back it up. Hope this helps

BOBER96

Great info Jeff...THANKS!!

Chippp

The distance from the lamps is taken into account determining the session length as well as the lamps uva/uvb % to provide the max dose allowed by law "4 med".All booths provide 4 med in their max session lenght.From head to toe.Thats why you do not have streaking, or problems with the face not tanning like your torso.

Gene

Chippp, none of the items you mentioned determine actual session lengths as determined by manufacturers. Let's go through it with actual examples:1. I have a Tan Amercia 32 with 6.5 reflector lamps. Maximum labelled session is 20 minutes. Lamps are very close. It reddens up nearly everyone including veteran tanners. I would estimate the MED at about 5 minutes for skin type 2. That would mean a 20 minute maximum session. In the next room I have a 1992 Sundash unit, 32 lamps with Bellarium S OEM lamp. I would estimate the MED on this unit at about 9 minutes. That's a maximum 36 minute session--but both units have identical labels. Other examples abound and verticles are not exempt from these anomalies. You don't see the extremes with stand-ups becasue who wants to stand for 17 minutes? That's the ONLY reason.2. In the marketplace, the number of lamps makes no difference in determining exposure times. You can buy a home ETS machine with 16 lamps with Diamond Sun S lamps with a 20 minute timer and you can buy a 36 lamp ETS bed with the same or similar lamps with the same 20 minute exposure.3. Distance from the user makes no difference. The Mega-Sun VHR beds have a 20 minute timer and practically sit on your nose. Pro-Sun Lumina uses the same VHRs with the lamps about a foot form your face. Expousre time=15 minutes.It's all marketing you see, not science. They just want you to think so. In truth, bed manufacturers think the FDA and salon owners are idiots who won't notice. If enough salon owners expressed enough outrage, they might change their ways. Until then, the label on your tanning equipment is misleading at best, a dangerous lie at worst.

Chippp

User Positioning In The Booth or bed.The intensity of the radiation to which a user is exposed depends upon the distance the user is from the lamp, the lamp wattage. The intensity of the radiation at contact can be as much as five times higher than that at a distance of 12 inches.

Chippp

I quess the 4med law for max exposure is bunkmust be voodoo, not a science at all?What do others think about all this?Sounds fishy to me.All our tanning booths, different models, different session lenghts, different lamps all tan the same. Deep dark and from head to toe.I wonder why 8-)

Chippp

Gene said:"Until then, the label on your tanning equipment is misleading at best, a dangerous lie at worst." What do others think about this?

Brian Oshman

Gene: Your statements are incorrect. When a bed or booth is certified, the measurements are taken at the acrylic or protective grid. The measurements derived are the point when the skin starts to develop a sunburn (4 Med). This point becomes the maximum timer interval. This information is recorded on the actual warning label for that machine with the lamp type that it was tested and registered with. In no way is this information made up or generated for "marketing hype". Tanning eqipment is classified as medical equipment and cannot be legally sold or operated commercially without an irradiance test performed and the results filed with the FDA. To say that manufacturers think that the FDA and salon owners are IDIOTS is very ignorant on your part. Manufacturers have to follow strict guidelines before making equipment available to the public. There are a few variables that will reduce the performance of your machine and they are voltage, temperature, and maintainance of lamps.

Gene

Brian, YOU are incorrect. If I weren't a salon owner, I wouldn't believe it either. It SHOULD be the way you say but it isn't. I can read FDA 21 1040.20 as well as anyone. I sited a couple instances above. There are many more. How many do you need? Manufacturers cynically play with these variables to come up with the maximum session they desire. Happens all the time. Is it disturbing? You bet! I wish it weren't true but it is. That's why progressive salon owners are banding together to offer our input to the FDA so they can revise the measurement processes. Only then will salon owners get predictable, consistent and reasonable incremental exposures as well as maximum timers. Won't you join us?I will add the tanning lamp manufacturers to the list in my previous post.

Don Smith

Gene/Brian:Gene is correct and Brian is incorrect regarding 1.0 MED. The "time to sunburn" is 1.0 MED, not 4.0 MED. The problem comes from the fact that 4.0 MED is known as the "te" value which is often called "time to erythema" erroneously. The 4.0 value is the maximum allowable dose after a person has developed a base tan and it is 5.33 times higher than the dose allowed on the initial session time.The following definitions are often confused.1. 0.75 MED = Initial Session Time (IST)2. 1.0 MED = Time To Sunburn (TTS) Also called MTE (minutes to erythema).3. 4.0 MED = Maximum Regulatory Dose (MRD) also called MAD (maximum allowable dose).Once you know the MED/minute, you divide the above by this value and you can calculate the appropriate times.For instance, if you have a lamp that reads 0.25 MED/minute, it takes 3 minutes to reach 0.75 MED (0.75 divided by 0.25)which would be the IST; 4 minutes to reach 1.0 MED (1.0 divided by 0.25) which is the TTS; and 16 minutes to reach 4.0 MED (4.0 divided by 0.25) which is the MAD.The problem we all face is that there are no standards that all sunlamp and/or sunbed manufacturers must follow in testing their products. Therefore, there is no way to "prove" that one manufacturer is "right" and another is "wrong" and so we, salon owners, suffer the consequences.You don't have to fly blind; you can purchase a Solartech Model 7.0 (MED/hour) Meter for $179 and verify that your lamps are in compliance yourself. Take the reading, divide the result by 60 and you get MED/minute.Keep in mind that the Bellarium S was originally a 30 minute lamp. It reaches 4.0 MED in 28 minutes in a Sun 32 lamp 20 minute MTI sunbed. Therefore, it is a "strong" 30 minute lamp and a "forgiving" 20 minute lamp.What chaps my a** is the BS that manufacturers of sunbeds put out with no "real world" data to support it. If they are selling a 20 minute MTI sunbed with a lamp that takes 25 minutes to reach 4.0 MED, they should tell us so because we ASSUME that it will reach 4.0 MED in 20 minutes.Hope this helps.Don