Re: Media Attack Cosmo May Issue #2 Tanology
IRS Sucks!!!!!




Join Date: Jul 23 2004
Location: Wouldn't you like to know!!!
Age: 31
Posts: 1,453
Points: 25,241.42 (Donate)
Rep: +21956 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: Tanology Skincare Salon
Locations: 1
Founded: 2002


Today, 03:37 PM
Can you explain more.
__________________
Salon .....Not the Lotion



TanologyView Public ProfileSend a private message to TanologySend email to TanologyFind More Posts by TanologyAdd Tanology to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Feb 22 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 274
Points: 1,513.07 (Donate)
Rep: +132 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: Euro Tan
Locations: 1
Founded: 1997


Today, 04:13 PM
HERES THE ARTICLY

WHAT A BUNCH OF BS

You're aware that the sun causes dark spots and fine lines, but it's also behind a very scary threat to your health: skin cancer. With rates skyrocketing in young women, it's crucial that you stay safe.
Sure, you've heard the warnings: Wear sunscreen, cover up at the beach, skip the tanning bed. Still, even though these
sun-safe pronouncements are so prevalent, a lot of women disregard the message. Only 34 percent of young adults under 25 say that they regularly use sunscreen, reports a 2003 survey from the American Academy of Dermatology.

If you're part of the sans-sunscreen group, then we need to clue you in to something: You're basically inviting skin cancer. Consider the fact that just five sunburns at any time in your life double your odds of developing it.

Yes, it sounds harsh, but that's because it is. Skin cancer is the most prevalent of all cancers. Melanoma, the deadliest form of the disease, is now the second most common cancer in women between the ages of 20 and 29, according to the American Cancer Society. And rates of basal-cell carcinoma and squamous-cell carcinoma — the two less lethal forms of the disease — have more than doubled in the past generation among 20- and 30-somethings, reports a 2005 study from the Mayo Clinic.

It's enough for many dermatologists to consider skin cancer to be at record levels. "When I first started practicing 20 years ago, skin cancer was a disease of senior citizens — even seeing someone in her 30s with it was unusual," explains Richard Fried, M.D., Ph.D., clinical director of the Yardley Skin Enhancement and Wellness Center in Yardley, Pennsylvania. "Now, I regularly remove skin cancers from 20- and 30-somethings, and sometimes even teens, and I barely bat an eye."

The skin-cancer surge can mainly be chalked up to our sun-worshipping culture, explains James Spencer, M.D., clinical professor of dermatology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. A major part of this is the popularity of tanning salons. Several studies have linked indoor tanning to all three skin-cancer types, and yet young women are still cooking themselves under sunlamps — convinced they look thinner and healthier with a year-round bronzing, says Dr. Spencer.

And here's the crazy thing: Skin cancer is almost 100 percent preventable — if you strike a balance between enjoying the great outdoors and cutting your risk factors. But before you can commit yourself to taking the necessary steps, it helps to know the myths about what does and doesn't lead to sun damage. Your primer for practicing safe sun starts here.
It's been dubbed a healthy glow, but surprisingly, a suntan is actually just as destructive to your skin as a raw, pink sunburn. "Both a tan and a burn are triggered by UVA and UVB rays, two types of invisible light emitted by the sun and indoor tanning beds," explains Martin A. Weinstock, M.D., Ph.D., professor of dermatology at Brown University Medical School and chair of the American Cancer Society Skin Cancer Advisory Group. Research isn't clear on whether one type of ray is more closely linked to skin cancer than the other, but what researchers do know is that both can adversely affect the DNA of skin cells — a precursor to cancer.

Considering that both a burn and a tan are toxic to your skin, it is time to bury another long-standing sun lie: that getting a base tan protects your skin from subsequent sun exposure. "It's not true — any little bit of color you weren't born with is a sign that your skin has been exposed to UV rays," explains David Leffell, M.D., vice president of the Skin Cancer Foundation and professor of dermatology at Yale University School of Medicine. "Sun damage is cumulative, so the more you accrue, the greater your cancer risk."

Though it's impossible to know exactly how long it took for marks on your skin — like freckles, spots, little lines and broken blood vessels — to develop, studies have found that they can appear within weeks of sun exposure, explains Steven Rotter, a dermatologic surgeon in Vienna, Virginia. How they form: UV rays alter pigment and weaken your skin's collagen, the layer that gives your dermis elasticity.

The good news is, some sun damage can reverse itself. By avoiding UV exposure as much as possible — or at the very least, slathering your body in sunscreen with a minimum sun protection factor (SPF) of 15 when you go outdoors — you'll give your skin the chance to repair some of the harm that can foreshadow skin cancer. "You can't eliminate the odds of one day developing skin cancer because any sun exposure — even if you lay out a few times as a child — puts you at risk, but you'll lower those odds greatly by vowing not to incur any additional sun damage," says skin-cancer specialist Arielle Kauvar, M.D., professor of dermatology at New York University School of Medicine.

To speed the healing of any unsightly creases and spots that your dermatologist has already checked out and deemed noncancerous, consider using over-the-counter or prescription retinoids — antiaging forms of vitamin A that boost collagen production. Your doctor can tell you if they're right for you
Hitting the beach in a light-colored long-sleeve tee is certainly better than baring your arms and torso to the sun. But the truth is, the typical thin white tee shirt — the kind you'd wear on a hot day — has an SPF of only 7. This means that UV rays will start to broil your skin through it in about 70 minutes. (It takes a fair-skinned person about 10 minutes to get burned sans protection in the midday sun; multiplying this number by the SPF number of the garment or sunscreen tells you how long it'll take before a burn sets in.) "Most summer clothes block very few rays because the fabric is usually cotton or polyester, which isn't woven tightly enough to keep out UV light," says Susan Weinkle, M.D., assistant clinical professor of dermatology at the University of South Florida in Tampa.

This isn't to say that sunscreen is the only protection you need; dermatologists agree that wearing a minimum of SPF 15 sunscreen, as well as tightly woven garments, is the smartest way to stay sun safe. Also, the darker the garment's color, the more protection you'll get from it.

A few other sun-repelling requirements: a canvas hat (like the beachbum kind Ashton Kutcher is always seen in, not the straw type your grandmother wears) and sunglasses that block both UVA and UVB rays.

Unfortunately, the reality is that just being outside means you have to worry about sun damage and skin cancer. "Seventy percent of all UV rays penetrate through clouds, so your damage odds are actually almost as high on an overcast day as they are on a bright day," says Dr. Rotter.

Clouds aren't the only things UV light easily penetrates. Sixty to 80 percent of UV radiation is transmitted through the first 12 inches of water in a pool, so staying submerged won't keep your skin safe. "Water also reflects 100 percent of UV light, so you're at risk from the additional rays bouncing off the pool or ocean surface and onto your body," says Dr. Spencer.

Even taking cover in the shade is dicey. Sand and concrete reflect 25 percent of UV rays. "No matter how little direct sunlight you think you'll be getting, if you're going to be outside for more than a few quick minutes, be safe by putting on sunscreen," says Dr. Rotter.

Another skin-protection slipup: not slathering on sunscreen during the winter months. UV radiation may not be as strong in January and February as it is in July, but you can still accumulate major damage during cold-weather months...especially if you hit the slopes.

"Some of the worst sunburns I have seen were on skiers; they get double the sun without realizing it because they're at higher altitudes," explains Deborah Sarnoff, M.D., associate clinical professor of dermatology at New York University. "Also, snow reflects 85 percent of UV rays, so you get even more harmful exposure." And no matter what season it is or how low your altitude, you're not necessarily out of harm's way just because you're indoors. "UVA rays go right through glass, whether it's a window in your house or your car windshield, so wear sunscreen when you're spending a lot of time next to a window or driving, just as you would when you're out side," says Dr. Kauvar.

The problem with this logic is that by the time many people consult a dermatologist about a suspicious mark, it may already be cancerous.

"Skin cancer can be fast growing; a mole can appear on your skin and turn into melanoma within six months," explains Albert Lefkovits, M.D., assistant clinical professor of dermatology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City.

Luckily, if the melanoma hasn't spread beyond your skin, your survival rate over five years is 98 percent, according to the American Cancer Society. But if it has moved into your lymph nodes, those odds sink to 64 percent. (Basal-cell carcinoma rarely spreads past your skin, and squamous-cell carcinoma is less likely to do so than melanoma, though both can still be serious cancers.)

Remember, skin cancer is almost 100 percent preventable, so it seems pretty foolish to wait until you've been sporting a weird spot for a while before taking action by seeing a derm. "Another problem is that the longer you wait, the larger the spot may get — meaning a bigger, more visible scar when it is finally cut off by your dermatologist," says Dr. Rotter. "I've had to remove part of patients' noses or eyelids because they ignored a red bump or scaly patch when it was in an early stage."

It's amazing how many sun-savvy chicks stretch out inside a tanning bed like a rotisserie chicken for 30 or so minutes on a weekly or even daily basis, truly believing that frying their skin indoors is somehow safer than roasting in the sun outside. But indoor-tanning beds are at least as harmful as the sun. "The typical salon uses lamps that emit UVA and UVB rays. The amount of UVA rays is about 10 times more UVA light than you'd get by lying out in your backyard," says Dr. Spencer. "So 20 minutes at a salon triggers the same damage you'd rack up after more than three hours outdoors."

A slew of studies suggest a strong sunlamp-skin cancer connection. One, from Johns Hopkins University in 2001, found that just 10 indoor tanning sessions sparked skin changes linked to cancer. Research from the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 2002 showed tanning-bed use upped a person's odds of developing squamous-cell carcinoma one-and-a-half times and boosted the risk of basal-cell carcinoma 50 percent. And a 2003 Norwegian and Swedish study revealed that one or more indoor tanning sessions a month increased a woman's melanoma risk by 55 percent.

Tanning beds may also trigger more skin damage (those wrinkles, pigment changes and broken blood vessels) because of the concentrated levels of UVA light. "When I see a patient, I can tell if she's an indoor tanner; her skin will have a 'leathery' look," says Dr. Fried. Plus, since you lie under a sunlamp naked, you expose skin that normally never sees the light of day, like your butt and boobs. "Because these areas are usually covered, you're less likely to notice a suspicious mark there," says Dr. Leffell.

Bottom line: The darker your skin tone, the less likely you are to develop skin cancer, especially melanoma: Rates are more than 10 times higher among whites than African-Americans, according to the American Cancer Society. "Darker-hued people have higher levels of melanin, the natural chemical that gives skin its pigment," says Dr. Spencer. "Melanin is also a first line of defense in repelling UV rays, so the more you have naturally, the more protected you are."

However, women with olive to ebony skin tones are hardly in the clear. Remember, UV light has a harmful cumulative effect on your dermis, and that's true no matter what shade you sport. The more unprotected sun exposure you get, the greater your odds of triggering the development of a cancerous growth. "A darker-skinned woman who spends all of her time in the sun without sunscreen is more at risk than someone with a lighter skin tone who rarely goes out in the sun," says Dr. Spencer.

And when people with darker skin do get skin cancer, it tends to turn up along body areas with less pigment — like the soles of the feet, the palms or under a fingernail or toenail. "Because these body regions aren't always in plain sight, cancer that develops there often isn't caught until it's at a later, more serious stage," adds Dr. Rotter.

Beauty gear with built-in SPF sounds like a match made in heaven. But unfortunately, while they give you an added boost, many of these products generally don't have a high enough SPF — at least 15 — to keep you safe from the sun for very long, says Dr. Sarnoff. Also, since they don't get fully absorbed like a lotion does, they're likely to loosen and clump up in the pores of your face, leaving some parts of your skin susceptible to UV damage, according to research at Wake Forest University in North Carolina.

Another problem with cosmetics-sunscreen combos is that most aren't made with broad-spectrum ingredients. "This means they defend you against UVB rays only, not UVA rays," says Dr. Sarnoff.

Introducing the TAN Act
The fight against skin cancer hits Capitol Hill with this new bill in Congress.
The popularity of indoor tanning is no big shock to the typical young woman: 28 million Americans visit tanning salons
every year. Seventy percent of fake-bakers are white teen girls and women. In fact, almost half of 18- and 19-year-old chicks say they've gone indoor tanning on at least three occasions, reports one study.

That's alarming, considering that research links artificial light to an increase in skin cancer. Among the scary facts: UV rays emitted by tanning booths are so concentrated, 20 minutes of exposure is equal to more than three hours outdoors in the sun. And one study found that a single indoor-tanning session raised a woman's melanoma risk by 55 percent. No wonder the American Academy of Dermatology and the American Medical Association have called for federal legislation to make the general public more aware of the dangers.

Along with these groups, Cosmo feels that publicizing the risks of indoor tanning might help make a dent in the skin-cancer epidemic. Joining us in our concern is Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), a longtime champion of women's health issues. Last February, along with Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-FL), she introduced into Congress H.R. 4767: The Tanning Accountability and Notification Act.

Dubbed the TAN Act, this bill would require the FDA, which regulates tanning equipment, to determine whether the current labeling of indoor-tanning beds adequately informs users of the risks associated with using them. "I don't think the warning is clear about the fact that artificial UV light increases your risk of developing skin cancer," says Rep. Maloney.

Currently, the TAN Act is with Congress. Cosmo hopes it'll pass in both houses and be signed by President Bush as soon as possible, so young women will be more aware of the irreversible damage that indoor-tanning exposure can cause.

Join the Cosmo Crusade
Help turn the TAN Act into law by letting federal legislators from your home state know that you support it. It takes just two steps: l: Go to house.gov and type in your zip code in the space provided; you'll be given the name of the rep from your district and his or her online contact information. 2: Identify and get in touch with your state's senators by going to senate.gov and clicking on your state.




certanView Public ProfileSend a private message to certanFind More Posts by certanAdd certan to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Apr 20 2005
Posts: 172
Points: 2,185.84 (Donate)
Rep: +631 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 1
Founded: 2002


Today, 04:28 PM
Certan,
You beat me to it!! I trashed my issue as well. They have ads throughout the entire mag for anti-sun t-shirts and a full page on how to help lobby to shut down tanning salons!!!
I am outraged at the proliferation of non-factual and vaguely misleading information which they are spreading.

Let's All Please write letters to the editor and Show them that we are educated Professionals and not morons running death machines:angry:
__________________







Join Date: Feb 21 2005
Location: NEw York
Age: 29
Posts: 1,227
Points: 7,643.50 (Donate)
Rep: +2655 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: Total Eclipse Tanning Salon
Locations: 1
Founded: 2001


Today, 04:35 PM
ok its 2006 so they are goign by a survey from 2003 and not to mention all the over counter comsetics with at least an SPF 15 in them now.. so I think those statements as of today can not be accurate.. and of course neutrogena is gonna sponsor that.. to get people to by their sunless products...

I have already contacted the ITA because we need to have our voices heard... this is completely one sided... and we need to flood Cosmos office.. and well as our state legislators offices to fight this NOW...

Maybe one of us can start a blnaket letter to pass along and to forward to the Cosmo editor in chief... any ideas anyone.???
__________________
Well I still have a pulse.. so I shouldn't complain, BUT I will !
HOLLA!
totaleclipse1View Public ProfileSend a private message to totaleclipse1Visit totaleclipse1's homepage!Find More Posts by totaleclipse1Add totaleclipse1 to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Feb 1 2006
Location: Tennessee
Age: 44
Posts: 278
Points: 9,031.55 (Donate)
Rep: +3011 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: SST
Locations: 1
Founded: 1996


Today, 05:07 PM
I sent this email to the editor of our local newspaper last week. Maybe if more of us help get the word out that this isn't the whole story, things would change for the better.


Hey Chris,

Take a look at some of the latest research coming out about UVB exposure and cancer.

UVB is the bandwidth of light that causes sunburn, but also causes cells in your skin to start producing melanin. UVA causes the oxidation of that melanin and produces a tan.

I think that it is interesting that we have been told for years that you should avoid the sun and tanning beds. Perhaps life's lesson is the same with this as with everything else--MODERATION.

http://www.newstarget.com/009415.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/520757

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529426

I know you aren't in a position to take on the national press and the dermatology associations and the American Cancer Society, etc., but it is obvious that all of the story is not getting out about UV exposure. Just thought it was interesting enough that you might like to see.

Bill


__________________

Tan fat looks better than pale fat.
billableView Public ProfileSend a private message to billableSend email to billableFind More Posts by billableAdd billable to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Oct 28 2001
Location: Ontario
Posts: 429
Points: 1,638.33 (Donate)
Rep: +286 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 2
Founded: 1985


Today, 05:15 PM
http://magazines.ivillage.com/cosmop...293012,00.html
here is the link to write to the editor. I have already sent my thoughts. To begin with the first page of the article says....our sponsor: Neutrogena, every page has a neutrogena ad on it, everything from sunblock, to, foundation, to powder to moisturizer....then to make it worse, they feature an 18 yr old girl with skin cancer. Now let me see, grandmother and aunt died from melanoma, she didnt adhere to exposure times, and she admits she burnt a lot. Now she is on a crusade to stop her friends from tanning???? The fact they also repeatedly refer to indoor tanning as baking and roasting. Please....we all need to write to the editor and have them publish both sides of the story. Let them no the number of salons that will not carry Cosmo because of this, times the number of female patrons we have that would read it. Don't hide it from your clients, their "caring" friends will warn them about the article. Post it, refer to all the studies (NOrway and Sweden....duhhh...white people) Show them how the information is misrepresented. We will win this fight!!!!
ShantillyView Public ProfileSend a private message to ShantillyVisit Shantilly's homepage!Find More Posts by ShantillyAdd Shantilly to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Mar 12 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 55
Points: 2,049.99 (Donate)
Rep: +431 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: SST
Locations: 2
Founded: 2004


Today, 05:27 PM
its interesting... their swimsuit models seem to be tan on pg 114... hmmm
Tasha_ToshView Public ProfileSend a private message to Tasha_ToshFind More Posts by Tasha_ToshAdd Tasha_Tosh to Your Buddy List





http://ads.hsv.net/adview.php?n=a924ac12







Join Date: Apr 9 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 18
Points: 461.91 (Donate)
Rep: +19 (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: Elite Tan
Locations: 1
Founded: 2002


Today, 06:40 PM
I think one us should come up with a letter that we can all send in.
I will begin working on it.
If anyone has anypoints they want me to make sure I hit on or facts and figures I must include just pm me.
I will post when I am done with it so you can then contact me and I can send you the attactment.
kdhtanView Public ProfileSend a private message to kdhtanSend email to kdhtanFind More Posts by kdhtanAdd kdhtan to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Apr 20 2005
Posts: 172
Points: 2,185.84 (Donate)
Rep: +631 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 1
Founded: 2002


Today, 06:47 PM
I think the key here is to make sure the letter is not presented in a defensive manner, but an educational one. If we storm down the doors with angry letters, they will just be getting the gratification they seek, to cause an uproar. We need to make sure we approach our correspondence in a professional way supported with lots of CURRENT Factual information.
__________________







Join Date: Oct 19 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 30
Posts: 54
Points: 1,420.09 (Donate)
Rep: +10 (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name: Jamaican Me Tan
Locations: 1
Founded: 2004


Today, 09:27 PM
I was just about to get on here and talk about the same thing. Got my issue today and opened it up and the first page I see is slamming tanning. Then you see an ad for PALE is the new tan t-shirt if you purchase X amount of nutrigena products. Just banned Cosmo from our salon. I was just about to purchase another year, but Forget that. It is nice to know that I was not the only person upset about this and have now banned the mag from the salon.
__________________

lilgatorView Public ProfileSend a private message to lilgatorSend email to lilgatorFind More Posts by lilgatorAdd lilgator to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Oct 28 2001
Location: Ontario
Posts: 429
Points: 1,638.33 (Donate)
Rep: +286 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 2
Founded: 1985


Today, 09:53 PM
kdhtan:
here is some thoughts you might want to consider . from Joe Levy, on similar issues a few months ago.


As millions of indoor tanning customers know, a base tan prior to a
sunny vacation -- in conjunction with sunscreen usage on the vacation --
is more effective in preventing sunburn than sunscreen usage alone.
That's because a base tan multiplies the effectiveness of the sunscreen
used outdoors.
When your skin tans, melanin literally enshrouds each skin cell -- much
like the hard-shell coating of an M&M candy protects the chocolate. This
natural tan protects the skin cell from receiving too much ultraviolet
light. In conjunction with sunscreen usage, this protection is
multiplied and is more effective than mere sunscreen usage alone.
That is one reason why indoor tanners -- once they begin tanning -- are
less likely to sunburn outdoors as compared to non-tanners. The other
reason, ironically, is that professional tanning studios today do a
better job teaching proper outdoor sunscreen usage than those who preach
blanket over-use of the product.
Consider, Gilmour and Vyn state in their column that "a minimum SPF of
15 is still recommended at all times." That overstatement is misbranding
a product that was never intended to be used daily as it is today in
most women's cosmetics. Make no mistake: Sunscreen is only intended to
be used to prevent sunburn, and while it's use is absolutely necessary
when people go outdoors for extended periods in seasons when sunburn is
a possibility, it is unnecessary and most likely unhealthy to wear it
"at all times."
No doubt this is the reason that sunscreen usage in the general
population is declining today, according to the Sun Safety Alliance -- a
consortium of sunscreen manufacturers and drug store owners. Instead of
teaching people proper and practical sun care habits, public health
officials are promoting "sun abstinence" -- an unwarranted message that
is falling on deaf ears. People are smart -- they know better.
The antiquated notion that "any tan is a sign of skin damage" that
Gilmour and Vyn perpetuate in their column is a prime example of such
deception. To call a tan "damage" to the skin is using a
micro-definition to describe a macro-phenomenon.
Here's what I mean: It is akin to calling exercise "damage" to your
muscles. As a fitness trainer will tell you, exercise, on the
micro-level, tears tiny muscle fibers that your body is designed to
rebuild stronger than before. To call that "damage" would be misleading
because it is what your body is designed to do. Similarly, your skin's
outer layer naturally rebuilds itself every 30-60 days -- to call sun
exposure "damage" is more misleading than it is accurate.
Finally, in an era when research has shown that a majority of Canadians
are deficient in Vitamin D -- made naturally when the skin is exposed to
sunlight -- it is myopic and misguided for health care providers to
suggest that people completely avoid sunlight. It is plausible that
over-use of sunscreen is contributing to vitamin D deficiency.
The professional indoor tanning industry is part of the solution in this
ongoing discussion. We teach people sunburn prevention and proper
balance rather than impractical over-statement and hyperbole.
Joseph Levy
Smart Tan-Canada
Winnipeg, Manitoba

ShantillyView Public ProfileSend a private message to ShantillyVisit Shantilly's homepage!Find More Posts by ShantillyAdd Shantilly to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Oct 28 2001
Location: Ontario
Posts: 429
Points: 1,638.33 (Donate)
Rep: +286 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 2
Founded: 1985


Today, 10:04 PM
It friggin amazes me that this post has only gotten 63 hits as of now. Yet this magazine was released in Ontario last Wednesday, not sure when in the u.s. People do u not care...is this site only for jokes and put downs....where are your thoughts and imputs when they are needed most? Now is the time when tantalkers need to come together, there is a lot of great minds, experience and expertise on this site. What are you doing to stop the decline of people coming through your door in what should be our busiest season because of this article????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????.
ShantillyView Public ProfileSend a private message to ShantillyVisit Shantilly's homepage!Find More Posts by ShantillyAdd Shantilly to Your Buddy List









Join Date: Oct 28 2001
Location: Ontario
Posts: 429
Points: 1,638.33 (Donate)
Rep: +286 So Popular (+/-)

Business: Salon Owner
Name:
Locations: 2
Founded: 1985


Today, 10:06 PM
billable....good points.....