View Single Post
Old 06-22-2005, 07:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
Sheila in Minnesota
 
Sheila in Minnesota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 3 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 1,686
Rep Power: 19 Sheila in Minnesota is a jewel in the rough Sheila in Minnesota is a jewel in the rough Sheila in Minnesota is a jewel in the rough Sheila in Minnesota is a jewel in the rough
Ohhhhhhh ~ ~ have a new place for showing your stellar intellects?

I have never witnessed such a display of aged ***** as I am seeing here tonite...... what a bunch of candy assed losers!!!

Well ~ here is the TEXT of what someone here at TanTalk decided was unfit for the industy's salon owner force

TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 3:43p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is TIME! Time that we came together as an industr, as a collective group with a priority to cleaning up the act in the destructive and sometimes even DEADLY behavior of the medical industry!!

You've read what the derms are up to and how they use this type of destruction to their benefit: http://www.tantalk.com/viewtopic.php?topic=2347937&forum=33&11

Now, leading in a positive direction to, not only placing a "GAG ORDER" on their efforts against the tanning industry. But getting your customers in on the actions we take! They'll love the outcome of a potential monetary settlement within the action, as well as their own protection of rights within our endeavors!

There are several attorneys within this industry! I know, because I've had the priviledge in helping them! If none are reading this forum - I'll forward my plan!

#1 - Class Action Suit against AMA and any and all medical practices within the ADA. Their own websites, offices and damaging media presentations should make it very simple to obtain the GAG ORDER. Specific references within the Court of Appeals Laws pertaining to Chiropractic.

This Class Action Suit should name every owner of tanning salons throughout the country and their customer base. Easily including a million plaintiffs before the first hearing.

#2 Class Action Law Suit against the AMA and entire profession of medical industry throughout the country - named therein and all medical doctors, hospitals, clinics, as well as any professional with degrees - practicing throughout the country who overcharge patients, who refuse medical treatment to the uninsured, charging unacceptable fees which effect our personal credits, those have patients inadvertantly signed the PRIVACY ACT - with a belief that it was outlined to protect our interests! (Pick up a copy of this ACT from any doctors office and read it carefully!)

This Class Action should nicely eliminate the problems than ALL American's are facing in high insurance fees and lack thereof! We should receive medical treatments at no cost, considering the taxes Americans pay that substantially reduce our income to less than 33%! Other regions of the world DO NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM!

If we, collectively fight for our rights and include the population - I predict that we'll beat them within 2 years!

What do you think? Any players? I'm an UNBIASED OPINION, could even be considered an EXPERT WITNESS! As you know, I've fought for the rights in lending for salons for 11 years! BUT I DON'T HAVE A SALON!

_________________
Terri Franssen

[ This Message was edited by: TFranssen on 2005-06-12 15:44 ]


mr belvedere
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 4:28p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to say it, but I believe a law suit would be huge waste of our money and effort. What we need is a powerful national media response effort to dispel the BS and expose some of the outright lies and misinformation they are putting out to the public. If UV causes cancer, why are there still people alive in the mideast? No clothes, no sun screen, no Cal Tan Insurance? It's because UV doesn't cause cancer! There is more clinical evidence today that skin cancer and other deadly are genetic, and not the result of environment. I'm not saying that overexposure to UV (radiation) isn't bad and is not responsible for some cases of skin cancer, but for these people to go on TV and tell the world that the sun kills is irresponsible and greed driven. Yes, I agree that a collective effort by all of us can change the landscape of our industry, but I don't think we have the resources to effectively win the type of fight Terri is suggesting. BTW, I like your spunk, T! Good luck.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 7:30p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most good attorney's will go on a class action battle, based on contingency, with enough people on the front end. And with enough people on the front end - we can begin launching the media hype to battle effectively - under the advice of our legal representative and a good publicist.

The numbers will make you stronger monetarily, therefore, the cost involved with the initial filing should be nominal to individual owners. Likewise, the publicist should receive a substantial amounT - and $1 a month from 20,000 salon owners should generate a positive outcome!

You can not win if you are not in! Correct?




mr belvedere
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 7:35p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok. So what are the grounds for our suit, and what damages will we seek?


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/12/05 7:35p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am in...and will help ! I am drinking your Kool-aid!


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 11:21p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First Ground to base our suit:

AMA, ADA and certain medical professionals, have breeched the Sherman Antitrust Act http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0844878.htmlin taking active steps, often covert, to undermine the tanning industry and educational institutes thereof. They have concealed evidence of the usefulness of UVA and UVB, used within the indoor tanning industry. They have misused insurance programs by charging higher fees for subsequent service, subverting government inquiries into the efficancy of tanning, engaged in a massive disinformation campaign to discredit and destabilize the tanning profession and continue to engage in numerous other activities to maintain a medical physician monopoly over healthcare in this country.

As in Wilk vs. AMA and Dr. Sammons, evidence should demonstrate that the ADA and AMA’s scientific studies are proving that UV technology provides many positive effects to skin disorders and other diseases that benefit from its usefulness. As research should provide substantial information to indicate the destruction of an industry for their own selfish acts, as UV has many positive effective uses.

These exact same boards are using their power to publicize a national boycott to the tanning industry – and TANNING SALON OWNERS are better trained in the use of these devices. As Physicians are using a “trial and error” that is insufficient within their degreed profession, without regard for the corporations formed to create the useful endeavors of UV light – the creator of the tanning bed. LET ME MAKE ONE THING PERFECTLY CLEAR – THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION WAS UNTRAINED AND DID NOT HAVE DEGREES, AT ALL. AND THEN THERE BECAME THE AMA, BERKLEY COLLEGE, HARVARD MEDICAL, ETC. These institutions were someone’s dream, became reality, and so is the way many industries are born, developed and maintained in the US today.

I've only just begun on this! However, I am in the process of getting myself off to Vegas! Don't have the hours to put together the entire basis of each ground - BUT I CAN!! I've been doing this for a very long time and FYI, I was in law school when I was offered a position to become Director of Operations for a finance company. I love doing research for legal, often help my friends who are Attorneys. I could actually write every ground, and present them to an attorney to bulldog the entire process, with very little effort.

And, I love a challenge! You - say "go"!

_________________
Terri Franssen

[ This Message was edited by: TFranssen on 2005-06-12 23:23 ]


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/12/05 11:37p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And, what is this?? http://www.tantalk.com/viewtopic.php?topic=2323394&forum=1

More substantial evidence indicating that our first ground has great merit!




navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 6:08a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF, I agree to disagree. The problem as I see it is that it is very inconsistent through out the industry. On the one hand you have the salon owners that are running there business as it should be run with proper trainning and client screening to insure that no harm is done to a client.
On the other hand you have salons that are out there that are running on poor information, little or no training, and that are harming the industry as a whole. When it comes time to lay it on the line, the ADA will point out these salons and use them as an example.
What I think needs to be done instead of a class action law suit is, the salons that are out there doing things the way it should be done need to come togeather as a group(sorta like the ITA) and form a type of "club" (for lack of a better term) that has credibility in the eyes of the public. Once you are a member of said "club" you will be inspected on a ramdom but unanounced time frame, if you fail to keep your salon in the shape and order to which the "club" has outlined, you will no longer be a part of that "club".
Once we have that in place, we can then start a national advertising campaign that showes the benifits of indoor tanning and to make sure the salon that you goto is a "club" member.
Don't get me wrong, a law suit is not a bad idea, but by the time it winds it's way through the system, it will be years before anyone will even hear about what the outcome is.

We need something to be done RIGHT NOW! If the derms get there way, we will all be sittting on a pile of useless equipment!!!!!


tantootx
Experienced Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 7:06a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navagatin1, That is the best idea I have heard in a long time. I want to be in the club. Have my dues ready to send. For instance, I'm so tired of people telling me the ABC Salon down the street doesn't make me wait 24 hours to tan and why do I have to wear eyewear, ABC doesn't make you or have them in the room, or ABC let me go the full time on my first visit, or why do I have to fill out a skin typing questionair, ABC doesn't make you do that. I could go on. This would be a great step for us to take to show we care about the public are safety minded and are not just in business to make a buck


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 7:16a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone talks a good game...but we all just want to talk about it. I am tired of talking and asking for action...I am with you Terri, its better to just do something to wake everyone the heck up.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 7:35a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The main issue I'm hearing everyday is that we need something that works to bring everyone together and proactively target them at their own game, correct? However, the medical industry is under a permenant injunction for the breech of the Sherman Antitrust Act - that Act isn't about whether something causes or does not cause cancer! It is about one corporate intity bashing another corporate intity into the ground! There are many things that the medical industry has done to result in wrongful death suits, permanent infertility, misdiagnosis, miscarriage, deformation, brain damage, and the list is out infinity on the medical lawsuits!

That is a fact! Your businesses have been formed so your families can earn a living! No matter what your salon looks like, how you treat your customers or whether you have beds that have been beaten with a baseball bat - you have done nothing but earn an honest living!! Which is exactly why SHERMAN ANTITRUST ACT is in existence!


tantootx
Experienced Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 7:42a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok,I'm in too. If we spent half as much time fighting something like this as we do fighting each other we would be way ahead of the game.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:01a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Injunction to Cease and Desist the Boycot of Teenage Tanning, Anti Indoor Tanning Promotions and Allocated Efforts of AMA, AAD and medical professionals in conjuntion to the Demise of a valid business practice thereof.
injunction: in law, order of a court directing a party to perform a certain act or to refrain from an act or acts. The injunction, which developed as the main remedy in equity, is used especially where money damages would not satisfy a plaintiff's claim, or to protect personal or property rights from irreparable harm. It has been historically important especially in tort, domestic relations, labor, and civil-rights law.

Originally courts granted only prohibitory injunctions, on the grounds that the performance of affirmative orders could not be easily compelled or supervised. In the 19th cent., though, affirmative (mandatory) injunctions began to be used, and they are now granted in unusual circumstances. Injunctions issued while an action is pending are termed preliminary, or interlocutory; they are intended to protect the plaintiff's interest so that a final judgment will not be worthless, and they cannot, for the most part, be reviewed by higher courts. If irreparable injury would result even before notice of a hearing could be served, the court may grant a temporary restraining order, which is binding on the defendant until a hearing can be held. A final or perpetual injunction is part of the final judgment of the court, and may be issued after all the evidence has been heard.

Injunctions, like most remedies of an equitable nature, are usually granted by a judge sitting without a jury. The broad discretion courts have enjoyed in using this power has, however, been limited by statute in many areas of the law. An injunction is essentially a personal order, and a defendant who disobeys may be punished for contempt. An injunction in force may be terminated or modified by the court.

Injunctions are today granted in many circumstances where courts of equity formerly refused to act. Thus, courts have ordered the performance of the terms of a contract, or the payment of legal damages by a defendant, sparing the plaintiff the need to seek execution of a judgment. Injunctions have long been used to abate nuisances. The use of the injunction in labor disputes has been a matter of great controversy in U.S. history.

In the late 19th cent. employers were often granted injunctions against strikes or boycotts when they alleged that the purpose of labor's activity (e.g., unreasonably limiting the employer's freedom by requiring him to hire only union members) was illegal. The power of federal courts to enjoin union activity was restricted by the Federal Anti-Injunction (Norris-LaGuardia) Act of 1932, and many states passed similar laws. Later legislation, however, including the 1947 Taft-Hartley Labor Act and the 1959 Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act, restored much of the power to use labor injunctions.




DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 8:03a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
who is our attorney?


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:07a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teenagers are the TARGET MARKET and number ONE source of income for the Derms! They are marketing within their own website information the use of UV treatments at 20 minutes per session and 3 x per week! Why would a parent allow their insurance company to be ripped off and pay a $15-30 co-pay for each visit - when the tanning industry is here providing the exact same service for less?

YOU GUYS CAN DO THIS - BUT ONLY COLLECTIVELY IN EACH AND EVERY STATE!!


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:10a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say someone needs to contact the attorney that handled the case for Wilks - that is, if he's still alive, or in practice! If not, the firm may still be around.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 8:12a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has the ITA looked at going this route? Why have our tanning orgs. not gone this route?


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:12a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$12 from each salon should suffice - making it $1 per month per year, as suggested! 10,000 salons in participation will give $120k to begin the endeavor! WOW! And how much money have you been paying to others for your protection????


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 8:15a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we need to find an attorney so he can set up an escrow account....or I nominate you since you are a 3rd party....

_________________
Any Advice given please consider the size of your market!

[ This Message was edited by: DWhite6872 on 2005-06-13 08:16 ]


dcjjp2
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:35a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm in! Keep me posted.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:36a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could be your spokesperson! One thing about it, I wouldn't take your money and sit around smoking cigars with politicians! Then of course somebody has got to do that stuff! And someone else must take a stand while they do the hobnobbing!

Dana, I nominate YOU to open the account and count the dough, distribute it and ensure that every dime goes to the publicist and attorney for filing fees and such. I will do the leg work and find the appropriate people to handle it.

ITA needs to be called in as Expert Witnesses and handle the publicist information output. Tanning Trainers need to handle building a foundation to present ourselves knowledgeagle, etc.

PTAF could also work directly with the publicist for time frames in output of media presentation. Someone will have to speak on our behalf with ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN etc. Find a quality person - Dr. Hollick, Don Smith, etc.

What else?


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:37a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say, ensure the corporate intity is structured as a NON PROFIT. As the financial gain will go towards the cause and ONLY the cause!


GENIUS
Administrator Posted: 6/13/05 8:41a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lack of ORGANIZATION is a problem here.


Mitzi
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 8:47a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTAF already have lawyers in place Terri. Contact Bob Wagner, see what he has to say on this.


engfant
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 9:08a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm down.


capetan
Still a Newbie Posted: 6/13/05 9:33a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just let me know what to do next. Why everybody wouldn't be all for this will amaze me!


angelcat04
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 9:39a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Count me in too.


Jancy
Veteran Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 10:06a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was in practice as a PT, years ago, we used to have UV hand held lights that we used for therapy. We were required to make up a UV scale on an area of the patient's body (imagine a stip of paper with a hole punched in it every inch)and every minute we'd uncover a area until the entire paper was revealed. When the patient came back the next day we would use the first area where the skin turned pink as their skin type information (for example: UV light @ 6" x 3 minutes) and submit this to the doctor. Then we'd get back a prescription for UV light therapy for 2 weeks @ 6" x 3 minutes. This was UV therapy, I had to wear UV blockers and isolate the area where the UV was being applied. I don't remember the strength of the UV light, but I know it was darn strong. And I wasn't given any UV blockers for the patient to use, they were told not to look at the light or we'd set up a sheet to prevent them from seeing the area. Now we know that the light still penetrated that sheet......
The medical field practice of UV therapy is very specific but it has fallen out of practice. I understand that UV therapy is still instructed and still remains on the State Board Exam's for therapy as a challengable practice. I don't know if this helps with the details of how UV therapy is written as a prescription by the medical field, but is shows you that the medical field took steps to insure that a baseline was first measured and then therapy was stated only on the grounds of the baseline. UV therapy was used for bed sores because of the bacterio-static effect for infected bed sores which I used to treat, it was used to make the med's activate, it was used for acne and other skin conditions that we are all now familiar with. I was never allowed to use the UV for any purpose p/except under the direct prescription or verbal permission of the physician. Once the PT department set up the baseline for the UV application, nursing could take over and apply the UV on a set schedule.
Nursing uses bili-lights for newborns also, but again this was set by physicians on a predetermined schedule (I refused bililights for my babies, I remember seeing newborn babies under the lights without any protection for their eyes or the nurses put wads of cotton taped over their eyes.... I simply took mine home same day of birth and laid them out nude for a few minutes in a warm area under the regular sunshine on a daily basis with their heads in the shade and eyes protected.) Medical therapy using UV lights used to be really, really specific, but it was also really, really bad and didn't protect anybody's eyes.
Imagine all these parents of newborns going back to the hospital stating "I remember seeing my newborn with a 4 x 4 cotten dressing taped over his eyes and he laid for hours at a time under the bililights" and wanting damages for the child's eyes..... every woman in this country would be in on this claim.


tanstan
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 11:25a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am in!!! It is about time we shut them up!!!


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 12:45p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can someone tell me what efforts the attorneys for PTAF are making? That would be a helpful bit of information, as I haven't seen any posts about that.


JOLEE
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 12:57p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
count me in as well! let me know where to send my $12.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 1:11p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay...Terri. I will set up an escrow account and financials...but I need you for the Attorney and research...deal? I need to talk to our attorney and see if it should be a .org..or how to set it up.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 1:12p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do we want to set this up for attack? Or finally a Possitive Vit.D campaign for local markets?


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 1:14p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A counter attack. The positive aspects will come from the salon owners informing there customers.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 1:28p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I knew I liked you...


ALOHATANCA
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/13/05 1:46p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
be there or be square !! I am in.


river_brat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/13/05 5:43p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like the idea of the salon owners forming an alliance against the negative press. I think if we formed something to this extent, we might be heard more effectively than just as an individual salon level. Perhaps by having this we could get together that each month a different news letter is sent out to each of our individual markets so salon owners may send to the media outlets, to our clientelle, and anyother avenue at hand. This way the same exact information is going out to every market across the united states. I believe that would make a huge impact. Not only would it show and alliance, but also demonstrate that we as salon owners have our sh$t together.

COUNT me in. I am tired of sitting and waiting for organizations to take control as I sit and watch the derms ruin the industry!!!


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/14/05 8:30a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We/us/I need to make sure that the lotion industry pays there fair share into this battle as well. The way i see it if the lotion makers do not want "in" on this program, then I will not carry anything from them. This has to be a national scale counter attack against the negative press that we have recieved, and it will cost quite a bit to keep us on the front lines with the derm's.

We have to get organized and quick! We have to have at least a foundation in place by the end of the summer with a solid footing on a release of the program by the 1st of the year!


soapking
Veteran Tantalker Posted: 6/15/05 4:25a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where is the ITA??

Isn't that why you pay dues??

Each industry should have one voice to guide, direct and protect..
Show no support for the ITA shows, and perhaps they will become more pro-active..


CRB
Brand New Talker Posted: 6/15/05 10:36a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the last few years I have read a number of ideas regarding this matter on every website our industry has to offer. Some were better than others... and some were just rediculous. Finally, an idea that seems to have the beginnings of a well thought out direction for us to take. Being able to implement such an action will be our test as an industry to come together. If each owner put just a fraction of effort into this, our combined force could well become one to be reconed with.
Procrastinating will bite us in the arse soon.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/16/05 11:42a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana, Lets not consider it a "battle", per se; let's call it over due - justice!! I'll be back on Monday to help get everything in motion. Did you set up the account? If so, do you have the deposit information or mailing address for everyone to send their $12?

All those who are "in" should send in the fees to retain the attorney and publicist. I'd say the attorney for Chiro - may already have good publicist! A dual effort should go smoothly with them involved in a proactive methodical beginning!!

I AM SO EXCITED FOR YOU GUYS!!


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/16/05 11:55a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have called it the TSAF which stand for "Tanning salon action fund".
The bank account is set up...the mailing address is 3982 Powell Rd.Suite 307 Powell Ohio 43065 ...
I look forward to talking to you Terri when you get back..I am deposting $1,000 to start.


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/16/05 12:09p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets not get to excited just yet. Lets "get er done" first!


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/16/05 12:45p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT THING: Lets leave the lotion and bed mfgs OUT - FOR NOW!! First, they have plenty of money - in that you are correct!! BUT: they haven't done anything positive to assist in these efforts as of yet - in this particular manner and it is my own opinion, as they are the main reps on the board at ITA - and more politically focused! NOT A BAD THING! But doing you 0% with those tactics at this time! Second, as a joint effort with ONLY salons - I believe YOU can combine efforts on all levels to enforce your own justification on ALL LEVELS!! Remember, this TSAF - will consist of SALON OWNERS for and on their own behalf!! Other problems can be nicely handled one at a time!! THIS PARTICULAR ENDEAVOR IS TOP PRIORITY AND FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS!! SALON OWNERS ONLY!! Dana, right now, do not accept monetary investment from anyone other than salon owners!!

We'll begin the endeavors to generate donations from other sources, AFTER we form our top representatives in each state! Volunteers for each state should start cropping up now, PLEASE!!


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/16/05 1:01p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree...we have to show we are willing to put our money out there


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/16/05 1:34p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to have the time to go around my state to check on things, but unfor in my situation I am the only one running the show.
I will do whatever I can from behind my desk!

Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but I myself would like to see an action plan drawn up as to what are the things that the money's are being used for. A step by step plan of attack and cost assoc with each step. I don't want myself or anyone else sending money to anyone until we know what it's being used for.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/16/05 2:02p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terri will have that when she gets back...I would think the attorney would work for a settlement depending on how good of a case he thinks we have...but the publicist will cost money...
I can tell you I have enough to do durning the day...so I would be more than happy to give quarterly statements and have a group of people nominate themselves to sit on the board or help...but so far noone has ever done anything...and it will be quick and with direction...and not a bunch of wishy washy stuff...or I won't do it.


tantootx
Experienced Tantalker Posted: 6/16/05 7:58p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So do we need to make the check out to TSAF and mail to that address? Would that be the proper way to do it? If there is something I can do let me know.


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/16/05 9:55p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets get a estimate of costs...then we can have a "salon drive" ...I am just happy we might be able to do something...and I think Terri has a great idea..I am excited and thinking what have I just gotten myself into...


lil_missfit
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/17/05 7:37a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the account number for this fund? Did you set it up officially? Is it a non-profit, LLC ?????

Nothing personal here, but I think there is more to be done, before you start accepting any contributions. Just my opinion.

Sheri



Neon Beach
Posted: 6/17/05 8:07a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just curious? Say such a law suit went ahead, and it would likely be quite a public battle. Has anyone considered the consequences to the tanning industry should the case be lost?

_________________


"Wooaa is me...."
~Schleprock

[ This Message was edited by: Neon Beach on 2005-06-17 08:54 ]


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/17/05 8:14a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been a discussion on another site for awhile. There are legal issues to be considered before going ahead such as the account, the corporation, officers, etc.... Not to sound negative, but you need to have some safegards in place to assure that no one person has access to the money. These issues have been discussed as well as using the lotion manufacturers to assist in advertising.

Neon pointed out a great point about lawsuits. Don't be too quick to jump on that. The AMA has more money and power that a few salon owners. Are you willing to put your salon on the block?


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/17/05 1:29p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not think talking about consequences is negative...I was waiting to see if anyone had another side...every action causes a reaction....

What would happen? What is the best way? What will happen if we all continue to do nothing?


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/17/05 2:32p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, do not send anything yet until Terri talks to the attorney.
I think anyone who would like to volunteer, to see if the idea has merit or not...pm either one of us... . Who knows after more due dilligence if it will have legs or not...but if you would like to be more involved let either of us know.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/19/05 10:56p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Here's the scoop for you and others like you Neon: There really WON'T be a lawsuit! With the Wilks attorneys on the case, the most we'll need is a death defying letter to the AMA and AAD - one that indicates a second breech in the Antitrust Laws and the outcome of a suit, should it be necessary! Past and present actions therein are too similar for them not to back off!!

We just have to afford the right team of lawyers and the right publicist and our work will be DONE! That simple and I promise not to guide you into a full blown battle! You just have to trust that their past guilt is a mirror image of their current attacks!

I'd never EVER suggest anything to hurt the smaller, larger or chain salons and would not guide you into a deathtrap! I just can't figure out why others that have taken your money haven't taken these steps!



navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 5:51a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I just can't figure out why others that have taken your money haven't taken these steps!



Simple, on the way to do the "said" project, they got detoured by a Wendy's!


tantootx
Experienced Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 6:23a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is the PTAF going to react to this? Should someone contact them and let them know our plans to give them a chance to take our wishes and move on it. They have the structure in place already etc.. What we don't need is a public battle within the industry about this. I'm just asking.


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 8:45a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to do a letter writing campaign, you do not have to hire laywers. A bunch of Salon Owners can do the same thing. As soon as you bring lawyers into the mix, you will be starting something that I doubt you are really prepared to get into. Quite simply Lawyers = Law suits = lots of $ and, IMHO, a very large loss fort he tanning industry in general.

To repeat myself, the AMA and Dermatologists, in general, have been running roughshod over the industry for many years. Why? Because they have that "MD" behind their name. If you do not believe that that "MD" is meaningless, then you are in for a rude awakening... What do you have to counter it? You have a "MBA"? That will be useless. A PhD? It better be in the sciences like anatomy or physiology to be any good. You think being a salon owner for 20 years counts? You are being silly then.

You better think before you go hiring lawyers to do your thinking for you.


Ezliving_Jim
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 9:41a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is the "industry" going to prove financial damages, an essential element of a tort.

I can't "prove" to a legal standard that the dermoterrorists and AAD have hurt my business. My sales and sessions count have increased.

Sure, my competitors are having a more difficult time of it. But they are as likely to blame me as the AAD.




TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 11:11a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, if I were a salon owner, my main concern wouldn't be the collection of damages, per se. It would be a cease and desist of the target against our industry. However, we could offer a settlement to collect our loss of attorney fees within small portions of the industry going toward public alliance with insurance companies, ita and PTAF, as well as a public apology.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 11:19a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.nutrawell.com/Resources/DrugPushers.html#hypocrisy


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 11:20a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.chirobase.org/08Legal/AT/at00.html


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 11:47a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have contacted the firm that was listed as lead Counsel on the Wilk vs AMA case. Of course, as I predicted Mr. Arbauch is deceased. However, his office specializes in cases of this nature. Dana, I left you a message with their contact information and Marge will be in contact.

I hope you are all willing to take part in this on a collective manner, as that is the ONLY way to stop them!

I also hope the PTAF and ITA will provide any assistance you may need in further developments! Best of luck!!


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/20/05 11:48a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good stuff!


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/21/05 9:37a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I was thinking. In another post I was looking for a "pamphlet of tanning facts" to hand out to my customers as part of a welcome packete.
What if one of the first things we do is get something like this made for all the salon owners that are part of "the club" as a first line of defence towards getting our customers in the loop of the positive things of tanning.
We could figure out what to put in it that would not be breaking any laws, and then have it mass produced to keep the cost down.

Any ideas????????


bsmart
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/21/05 12:22p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tanning Truth. com has this information you're referring to. I don't understand why the "club" isn't either the ITA or SmartTan. If you're in one of those organizations why aren't you in the "club"? These organizations should be the leaders in this effort, and should be protecting the rights of salon owners.

I also thought that PTAF was going to take this thing from the legal side and work to the benefit of salon owners. This is beginning to get strangely confusing. So many organizations to send money to, and so little measurable representation.


bsmart
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/21/05 12:25p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT, if you get this thing going and an account # to me to support......I'm IN !!

Pass the Kool-Aid!!
_________________


[ This Message was edited by: bsmart on 2005-06-21 12:26 ]


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/21/05 1:49p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The key word in your statement is "should", they should be doing alot of things but they are not!!!!!


DWhite6872
Tantalk Moderator Posted: 6/21/05 6:01p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the right idea? I would like to know why it has not been considered before? Is it because it is a really bad idea?
What are the right steps...and would you need the "stars and moon to align perfectly" for something to change...and if we waited, would it be too late?

Why do I feel like "Carrie" off of Sex and the City? (all the questions)


_________________
Any Advice given please consider the size of your market!

[ This Message was edited by: DWhite6872 on 2005-06-21 18:02 ]


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/21/05 6:40p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the "city" fits wear it!


tantootx
Experienced Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 7:49a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like the "Club Phamplet" idea. I printed out that article of late about benifits of sunlight, you know the one. People loved it and was taking them right and left to share with husbands, etc.. Was that legal, probably not, but customers are starving for the right information.


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 8:36a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

On 2005-06-20 11:11:00, TFranssen wrote:
Personally, if I were a salon owner,



WHAT????? You're not a salon owner? And you're suggesting a law suit???????? NO WAY JOSE!!!!!!!! If you do not understand the simple fact that our collective monies would be less than a drop in the bucket, then you need to go back to basic law school. As noted above, in a tort case you need to prove damages. Show me the damages....Show proof that we have suffered...NOT!!!!!

Our best bet is to fight fire with fire. Campaign...campaign...campaign......send the letters...get the advertising out that is "truthful" and if possible get the manufacturers to do the advertising.


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 9:24a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ram take it easy for christ sake. There is no need to start insulting people!

Breath in, breath out, repeat...........


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 9:28a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the insult? Just because I think he is talking out of school? Oh well...If it is taken out of context, then I'm sorry. But I still believe he is dead wrong in his thinking and anybody that wants to follow his advice is asking to bring upon themselves a retalitory answer that will cause damage to the whole tanning industry.

If you think we are regulated now, try this and see what happens. We'll be regulated out of business. And those states that are not regulated? STAND BY!!!!!


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 9:39a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear ya buddy, but we are just tossing ideas around to see what(if anything) we can do as salon owners. It's obvious that ITA, Smartan and the rest are not doing enuff!

So start laying down some ideas as to what we can collectively do as salon owners to either spread the word, or combat against the derms.


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 9:43a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's inappropriate for me to tell you to look somewhere else, but this idea was started at another forum that you are a member of.


navigatin1
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 9:49a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I know I saw it, but not everyone belongs to that site as well. Just covering all bases!


ramcat
Master Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 10:07a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They can come over and take a look. We don't bite.


TFranssen
Tantalker Posted: 6/22/05 6:34p
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU CAN PUT THIS WHERE YOU WILL - BUT LET ME MAKE ONE THING PERFECTLY CLEAR - MY EFFORTS IN THIS INDUSTRY ARE TOTALLY UNSELFISH AND I HAVE ASKED YOU FOR NOTHING IN RETURN!!

YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE - BUT ITA IS ONLY TRAVELING THROUGHOUT THE POLITICAL ARENA AND MAKING YOUR REGULATIONS!! A "THREAT OF SUIT" WOULD NOT ACCOMPLISH MORE THAN YOUR OWN MONEY IS DOING RIGHT NOW!!

BEST OF LUCK!!





Copyright Tantalk 2005
Sheila in Minnesota is offline   Reply With Quote